For safety, no loaded weapons. - Page 2

For safety, no loaded weapons.

This is a discussion on For safety, no loaded weapons. within the Basic Gun Handling & Safety forums, part of the General Firearm Discussion category; Obviously you do not trust yourself and/or your family enough around firearms, that you have this procedure. As stated, it doesn't do any good to ...

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Thread: For safety, no loaded weapons.

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    Obviously you do not trust yourself and/or your family enough around firearms, that you have this procedure. As stated, it doesn't do any good to have it unloaded. You won't have time to get to it, load a magazine and rack the slide when the SHTF. A lot of ND's occur when loading and unloading a weapon. The more you do this, the more your chances go up for an ND. All firearms should be considered loaded and chambered, therefore why shouldn't they be. If you get in the "habit" of having it unloaded and magazine some place else, it's just a matter of time before your own plan backfires on you and you forget to unload the round from the chamber, or unintentionally rack one into the chamber when you don't realize it, and BOOM!

    Don't shoot yourself in the foot.
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatopardo View Post
    I follow two simple rules at home:
    1- No loaded weapons at all at any time.
    That means , no accidental discharges. First thing I do when i come home is to unload my weapon, alone in the bathroom, just me. A five gallon bucket full of sand helps.
    Finger off the bang switch and kept in a holster will prevent Negligent or Accidental Discharges. But hey, your house, your rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by gatopardo View Post
    2- Ammo and weapons stored in different containers all the time.
    Because bullets might jump in the gun and cause a mass shooting?

    I know what you are getting at...

    Quote Originally Posted by gatopardo View Post
    So for anyone asking, how would I defend myself from a home invasion?
    Quote Originally Posted by gatopardo View Post
    Real simple: My primary defense gun sits on my small table when I'm home, it's a semi auto, no magazine is present, so its pretty useless as is, the key is the magazine of course, it takes a couple of seconds to insert the mag, and rack the slide, and now its a weapon, where do I keep the magazine? Ah! that is the secret.
    Why do I do this? We people are prone to have accidents, for whatever reason, (this is not a philosophical post though) without exception, as we read down the posts here in this section.
    And just as a glass with liquid will spill, the open ink well will stain, the pan over the hot stove will burn, etc. the loaded gun will discharge, most surely, sometime.
    See first statement. Keep it in a holster and finger off the bang switch....the gun WON'T discharge....I promise. The problem with your comparisons with a glass, open ink well, and pan is that it is caused by an outside force. Gravity won't suddenly increase over a glass or an ink well...and someone had to either put the pan on the stove or turn the stove on...the common thread is SOMEONE had to do SOMETHING...these things did not occur by themselves.

    Oh....and the problem with your plan is: Bad guys ALWAYS get a vote. Who says you'll have time to load a mag and rack a round??

    Quote Originally Posted by gatopardo View Post
    The fact is, it doesn't matter how "well" trained people are, we still read about some guys getting killed by their kids, thinking the gun is a toy, or kill a brother or sister, some kill themselves accidentally, that is my fear, the idea is sobering.
    Caution: Strawman argument. I'll counter with home invasions or events happening in people's yards. Prevent accidents by educating children (I do)...prevent accidents by maintaining positive control over your gun. While this may work for you, I certainly hope no one mandates this kind of thinking "for the children"....

    Quote Originally Posted by gatopardo View Post
    I don't consider myself someone with great experience, or more experience than all you guys out there, but I refuse to be patronize or grilled for what I'm writing now, this affects everyone who owns a gun, "whomever plays with matches..." well, you know the rest.
    Well, considering you're posting this in an open forum with comments, sorry--you're gonna get criticism....usually from people who have been carrying/owning for years and raising children....educating and training them on proper firearm use, storage and discipline. If you're using the "matches" argument, well, I can say that is usually reserved for people with agendas. Otherwise, I recommend selling your guns and taking up knitting.....oh wait, sharp objects....eyes....sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by gatopardo View Post
    What I'd like to see coming is more pictographic tutorials about basic safety checks for different weapons, and good advise on good safety practices.
    For all of us who might not know everything about it, just that.

    Gato Pardo
    Have you tried Google?? What are specifically looking for??

    Listen, I know my comments may appear snarky....most of your comments I've read before from someone who is new to carrying, new gun owner, or someone who is getting back in the hobby....or as mentioned earlier, someone with an agenda. Heck, I've even used most of those words myself. Now after a few years of maturing in this lifestyle of owning/carrying guns, know they are a tool. A lethal tool, of course. But not a tool that suddenly starts shooting...and not a tool to leave casually around the house.

    Do I carry at home? Yes I do (when CONUS). Do I lock-up guns when not being used? Yes I do.

    Do I fear my children will get a hold of one of MY guns? No. But I am confident my children (13, 7) know well enough to call for me or my wife if they come across ANY firearm. They know they are not toys.

    Bottomline: If you didn't want to be criticized about your post?? Why did you post??
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  3. #18
    Member Array JetGirl's Avatar
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    Whatever your method, I hope you've practiced it over and over and over.
    Personally, my home defense weapons stay loaded, as does my carry.
    I hope neither one of us has to employ our practice methods in a bad situation...

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  5. #19
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    After reading the original post several times I believe that the writer cannot mean serious; it is too much to be true.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  6. #20
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    I hope you still practice good gun safety and aren't being lulled into a false sense of security "knowing" the guns in your house are always unloaded, because that would be a recipe for an accident.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    don't a lot of NDs happen when loading and unloading weapons? don't you actually increase you chances of an ND by handing your firearm more often than you need to? I have one simple G19 is always loaded and is either holstered or laying flat untouched....the more you handle your firearm, the higher the probability of ND.

    I also want to add that I live alone. Once this changes it will either be holstered or away from others...not laying on a table.... but still loaded
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  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    i view the op similar to carrying without a round in the chamber...feeling prepared and being prepared are 2 very different things and an unloaded gun is not a self defense tool of any greater use than a hammer...

    i agree with the few who stated that loading and unloading the firearm is more likely to result in an accidental discharge than keeping it loaded...along with other possibilities including bullet setback concerns, the increased chance of getting something wrong and the possibility of assuming a gu is not loaded and finding out the hard way it is...acidents happen because people forget the rules...not because they handle loaded guns unknowingly....

    its your home and your safety that as you will...but i dont think youre gonna find a great deal of agreement with your policies and procedures...

  9. #23
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Your house, your rules.

    I promise to not patronize your house, but please don't tell me what I should do in my house unless I ask for your input. ...Biker
    You kinda did ask for his input when you clicked on the thread. That said, an unloaded weapon is an expensive rock.

    Many years ago I got jumped in a parking lot while carrying condition three in the stress (read "panic") of the moment I completely forgot to chamber a round. Luckily the defensive display was enough but I learned my lesson I never carried W/ an empty chamber again.

    Same w/ this situation most of us (unless you have stress inoculation training or experience) are going to go all "deer in the headlights" for a second or two while your OODA loop catches up to reality. Then you're going to have to get your gun into action from waaaaaaaaaaay behind the power curve you may even be able to do it but I wouldn't want to try

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Everyone else already addressed the issues I had with one exception...the gun on the table. Seriously? You're trying to prevent ND's by forming a habit of plopping an "unloaded" firearm on a coffee table on a regular basis? That IS the road paved to ND's....

  11. #25
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I just keep my primary weapon on me loaded when I am home and when I sleep I put it in a gun vault. All other weapons are in the main safe unless they are on my person or in my possession. I have large rottweilers as a first line of security and I can access the loaded weapon pretty quick using the finger code on the gun vault and I dont have to worry about little hands getting on my weapons while I sleep.

  12. #26
    Member Array MrGray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatopardo View Post
    What I'd like to see coming is more pictographic tutorials about basic safety checks for different weapons, and good advise on good safety practices.
    Like Woody Allen, I plan to achieve immortality by not dying. Part of that plan is to not shoot myself.

    So I've invested some thought and effort into reducing the chances I'll have an ND. That means looking carefully at how I handle and store weapons, searching for ways to prevent accidents.

    Example: always load/unload in a comfortable, well lit area, with a place to catch the unchambered round and a clear area to set things down so you won't get distracted or confused. If the phone or doorbells rings, ignore it until you're finished. Never rush. Have a safe backstop, and keep the muzzle pointed toward the safe backstop at all times while manipulating the gun when loading/unloading. Beyond having a safe backstop (I use a ballistic pad), have a general 'safe direction' and make sure the muzzle is ALWAYS pointed in the safe direction.

    Based on reading quite a few reports of ND incidents, I've observed that certain activities are high risk for NDs:
    * loading and unloading
    * getting from storage/holstering & unholstering/putting away
    * cleaning, particularly with handguns that must be dry-fired to as part of the take-down procedure.

    Surprisingly, carrying a gun around in a holster has a low risk of an ND. Having a loaded gun in a rapid access safe has a low risk of ND. Having a loaded firearm unsecured but unmanipulated (e.g. in a closed box, or in a drawer) has a low risk of ND, because firearms don't go off unless they're manipulated.

    So I don't constantly load/unload guns. In my house, EVERY gun is loaded except when it's being cleaned. In my house, the loaded guns are either in a person's hand (being loaded/unloaded/unholstered/holstered), in the holster on a person's body, or in a rapid access safe.

    Only you can properly assess the risk of needing a loaded gun in your own home and not having time to load one. But I think you're ignoring the very real risk of an ND that's introduced by constantly loading/unloading your carry gun. I think you could cut the risk of an ND (and of ND related injury) by keeping the gun loaded at all times, and either having it in a secure rapid access box or in your holster on your body at all times. Opening a box like a GunVault Multi-vault can be done in about the time it takes to pick up the gun, pick up the magazine, and load the gun, perhaps less.

  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    I also unload all my weapons when in the home, except for the revolver my grandmother keeps in her bedroom, the 12 gauge i keep in my bedroom, and my carry piece of the day which at that moment is sitting fully locked and loaded next to my computer as I type this. If that system of keeping everything unloaded works for you, thats great. If you are seriously that worried about ND's and this is what you have to do then by all means do it. I myself have had two ND's, one was a mechanical failure, one was a stupid failure. The first one, I had a bad magazine that tripped the slide lock, causing me to believe the mag was empty, so i dropped the slide, pulled the mag and it was empty, however there was a round in the chamber and I pointed it downrange to pull the trigger to decock my gun, and it went Bang. The second was caused by me forgetting I had a mag in the well and not checking it before I slammed the chamber home to do some dry practice. Pointed gun downrange, pulled trigger, gun went bang. Guess what I now do ALWAYS!!!! I leave the carry guns loaded, the home defense gun loaded and I never assume that my "empty" gun is empty. Both my ND's were caused by failing to check my weapon and by me PULLING the trigger. The gun did not go off by itself, my inexperience and relative immaturity at the time caused my ND's , not just a loaded gun sitting around. (Oh and btw, both times I had an ND, I removed myself from the range because it was obvious I should not have been shooting that day.) Now take this with a grain of salt, but an unloaded gun is just as, or is more dangerous than a loaded one
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  14. #28
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    I myself have had two ND's, one was a mechanical failure, one was a stupid failure. The first one, I had a bad magazine that tripped the slide lock, causing me to believe the mag was empty, so i dropped the slide, pulled the mag and it was empty, however there was a round in the chamber (Duh... ya think?) and I pointed it downrange to pull the trigger to decock my gun, and it went Bang. (So, you loaded the gun, pulled the trigger and it went off... and its the gun's fault?) The second was caused by me forgetting I had a mag in the well and not checking it before I slammed the chamber home to do some dry practice. Pointed gun downrange, pulled trigger, gun went bang.
    I hate to tell you this, but both were a "stupid" failure on your part. Read what you have written, both are examples of epic failure of basic semi auto operation.
    "Just blame Sixto"

    I reserve the right to make fun, point and laugh etc.

  15. #29
    Member Array mcgyver210's Avatar
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    Before I joined boards like this I used to keep my Glocks with clip in but none in the chamber while carrying & home for safety. After realizing that you can loose valuable seconds chambering your weapon I started carrying chambered all the time & I also keep chambered at my house. My weapon is always in a holster for an extra measure of safety. I am not worried about my son since he has been around guns since birth & even shoots with me.

    At home my gun sits in its holster beside me where ever I am just in case. I live in a very good neighbor hood so I lax a little on carrying in yard all the time.

  16. #30
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    Whenever I leave the house , my gun has one in the chamber, whenever I am at home my gun has one in the chamber, whenever I am sleeping my gun has one in the chamber, I either have it on my hip, or sitting next to me on the table.... See the pattern. I know my gun is not going to just "go off" without putting my finger on the trigger. Finger off the trigger is how I practice safe gun handling(without forgetting the other cardinal rules of course)
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