Really, Really Bad : Toddler Shot & Killed Accidentally - Page 3

Really, Really Bad : Toddler Shot & Killed Accidentally

This is a discussion on Really, Really Bad : Toddler Shot & Killed Accidentally within the Basic Gun Handling & Safety forums, part of the General Firearm Discussion category; Originally Posted by TSiWRX There is a Chinese proverb - that it is the greatest curse of the Gods to outlive one's own child. As ...

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Thread: Really, Really Bad : Toddler Shot & Killed Accidentally

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post
    There is a Chinese proverb - that it is the greatest curse of the Gods to outlive one's own child.
    As a parent, I can only imagine how devastated I would feel if my child died: for any reason. I would venture to say that whatever their peers and society can hand to them in terms of punishment for their crime simply pales against their own regret and guilt. For their loss, my heart sincerely goes out to them.

    ^^^^^^^My parents did, and its something not to be wished upon ones worst enemies.^^^^^^
    Last edited by MattInFla; June 14th, 2011 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Fixed borked quote tag
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  2. #32
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    Update : No Charges Filed in Toddler Shooting Death

    Still vey tragic. Here is the article from our local paper.
    No charges filed in toddler shooting death
    June 14, 2011 @ 12:00 AM

    DAVID E. MALLOY

    The Herald-Dispatch

    CATLETTSBURG, Ky. -- No criminal charges will be filed in connection with the death last month of 2-year-old Kathlynn "Addison" Tussey, said Commonwealth's Attorney David Justice.

    The case was presented Monday to a Boyd County grand jury. The panel returned 10 indictments in unrelated cases, but no charges were filed in connection with the death of the girl, who accidentally shot herself with a gun left in an unlocked console in a parking lot outside Cheddar's Restaurant at the Ashland Town Center Mall.

    "I felt it ought to be looked at," Justice said. "The grand jury saw fit not to return an indictment. I cannot say I disagree with them. It was a very tragic situation."

    The child picked up a loaded, small-caliber handgun with no external safety on it and shot herself in the face. She died at a Huntington hospital later that day. Her father, Gary Tussey, has a concealed weapons permit for the handgun. He was inside paying for his family's meal and his wife, Brandy Tussey, was putting a baby into a child safety seat when the gun went off, according to Ashland police.

    Ashland police investigated the shooting and chose not to file any charges in the case. That investigation was presented Monday to the grand jury.

    "In any situation involving children or the elderly, I let (the grand jury) make the decision," Justice said.
    No charges filed in toddler shooting death - The Herald Dispatch
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  3. #33
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    I'm of the opinion that people should be licensed to have children. This is sad, & ridiculous.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  4. #34
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    My feelings are very conflicted.

    A part of me says that there should be someone speaking for the child, and that person would hold the parents accountable.

    At the same time, as a parent, myself, I cannot imagine the pain that those two must be going through. Those of us who are "parents who carry," we carry in-part to protect what's dearest to us - our children. I do not doubt that these parents feel the same.

    I also can't help but feel that the child's siblings would be worse-off without one or both parent: they were out for a family meal at a place that kids enjoy, the parents obviously care enough about their children to properly secure them in child-seats. A moment's carelessness - and how many of us who are parents can say that we've *never* had such moments, be it with firearms or otherwise? that we just got lucky on? - here led to a lifetime's worth of regret and pain.

    As I said before, I think that what they are going through, personally and as a pair, is probably worse than anything we can give them, as society, as punishment and retribution.

    A part of me wants accountability, but a part of me also says "enough." I'm having a very hard time reconciling the two.

    I also hope that these parents will share their story with others - maybe some kind of public-service thing, to integrate with CCW/CHL classes. I know that I've learned from this story, I hope others do, too.

  5. #35
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    In the wake of a tragedy such as this, hindsight is always 20/20. If the gun had not been accessible to the child, this wouldn't have happened. If the gun had not had a round already chambered, it's doubtful that this would have happened either. I'm slowly switching my thinking from carrying unchambered to carrying chambered, but to me, carrying chambered means that you are actually carrying. It doesn't mean leaving the gun in the console of a car with one in the chamber.

    We had a similar incident in Tennessee several months ago. A toddler picked a weapon up from a table thinking it was a video game controller and shot herself. Once again, an unattended handgun with a round chambered.

  6. #36
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    ^ Well put. Hindsight is always 20/20. I think that it is for that reason we should examine cases like this in-detail, not to render judgement, but so as to learn from it.

    For me, the rules for myself are simple: the gun's either on me or in my immediate possession (i.e. I'm actively "doing something" with it), or it's locked (actually locked, denying access) away.

    With or without one in the chamber, to me, is almost irrelevant in terms of child-access. Even without one in the pipe, there is still the possibility that the child - however small and physically supposedly incapable of chambering the round - manages to do so. What's not to say that a toddler just-so knocks the pistol off the table, with it's rear sight or the ejection port catching on the edge of it, and their body-weight and momentum managing to chamber?

  7. #37
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    For me and my new wife, kids aren't an option that's on the table anytime soon, so at the moment her Kahr CW9 sits on the nightstand in its shelf, my 12-gauge is under the couch and my S&W M&P .40c usually sits in its holster on one arm of the couch or another. Depends on whether I plop myself down at the computer desk or on the Comfy Sack. Once kids decide to come along that'll all change. My M&P will always be on me, unless I buy a smaller gun for home carry, and her Kahr will probably be locked up. As for the shotgun, well, it's hard to say because we'd have to find a bigger place to live before we could have kids.

    Even now though, my M&P is never, ever unattended in my vehicle. It is either on me or in a lockbox that's bolted to the floorboard. There's no reason that child should have been able to grab that gun. That's just not acceptable. Unfortunately these parents paid with the life of their child. I can't imagine the hurt that's causing.

    While a part of me wants to say someone needs to pay for their criminal negligence, another part of me knows they already are...
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  8. #38
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    This is what pediatricians are talking about and why they have taken the position they have...

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post
    ^ Well put. Hindsight is always 20/20. I think that it is for that reason we should examine cases like this in-detail, not to render judgement, but so as to learn from it.

    For me, the rules for myself are simple: the gun's either on me or in my immediate possession (i.e. I'm actively "doing something" with it), or it's locked (actually locked, denying access) away.

    With or without one in the chamber, to me, is almost irrelevant in terms of child-access. Even without one in the pipe, there is still the possibility that the child - however small and physically supposedly incapable of chambering the round - manages to do so. What's not to say that a toddler just-so knocks the pistol off the table, with it's rear sight or the ejection port catching on the edge of it, and their body-weight and momentum managing to chamber?
    I'm just looking at the probability of an incident like this taking place with an unattended weapon and a chambered round vs an unchambered one. I read of children shooting themselves or other children fairly often in scenarios like this. While your example is a statistical possibility, I've not seen it occurring nearly as often. Unattended firearms should be locked. Sadly, they often are not. Although removing a round from the chamber is not an acceptable safety substitute, it's probably better than nothing.

  10. #40
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    As a parent myself, my guns are either on my person, in a proper holster that covers the trigger, OR they are locked up in a safe. When I handle them, I close and lock the door to avoid distractions.

    While perhaps not a factor in this particular case, this illustrates one of the dangers of "no gun zones." They force you to leave your weapon in your car, where it can be easily stolen, or fall into the wrong hands. While a vehicle safe helps, it is not a cure-all. And the fact is that the less you handle your weapon, the lower the risk of a negligent discharge. While we would all like to be safe all the time, the fact is that we all get tired, or distracted at times - especially if you have kids (I'm working on two years without a single night of uninterrupted sleep, thanks to our daughter). Had this gun been on the parent's body in a holster, this would not have happened.

    Tragic.
    TSiWRX likes this.
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  11. #41
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    I'm just looking at the probability of an incident like this taking place with an unattended weapon and a chambered round vs an unchambered one. I read of children shooting themselves or other children fairly often in scenarios like this. While your example is a statistical possibility, I've not seen it occurring nearly as often. Unattended firearms should be locked. Sadly, they often are not. Although removing a round from the chamber is not an acceptable safety substitute, it's probably better than nothing.
    ^ I don't even think that it's a "statistical possibility." Rather, it's the "remote possibility" that I just don't want to have happen.

    I'm a father of a 5 year-old. I've always dropped her off at "school" in the morning, and picked her up in the afternoon. I know the names of all her playmates. I'm the first face she sees in the morning, and the last she sees at night (and during the night). This is not to slight my wife - who is an incredible woman that juggles not only her career and family, but is a loving and caring wife on top of it all - but rather, it's to say that I spend a lot of time with children, and I've seen the strange and unexplainable things that they can accomplish.

    "Statistical probability" doesn't matter much to me - it's the unlikely potential that really chills me to the bone. How likely is it for the deceased child to have gotten into the console and shot herself? That's what I'm afraid of, and that's why my firearms are either in my hands/on my body or locked and inaccessible (in some manner or another).

    I agree, removing the round from the chamber is probably better than nothing, when the firearm is mishandled and left out in the open for anyone to come by and pick it up...and so is completely clearing the firearm of any ammo. Actually, prior to my daughter demonstrating inherent/unprompted understanding of the meaning of a firearm to be unloaded and "clear," I actually took the extra step of keeping the HD pistols in my quick-access safe both clear and with the magazine out.

    But the primary safety is still in having the firearm truly inaccessible.


    -----


    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    This is what pediatricians are talking about and why they have taken the position they have...
    My wife is a practicing pediatrician, and yes, I can tell everyone here, first-hand, that these types of statistics are what we were force-fed in the classrooms and on the wards. Sadly, I think the current teaching makes happen is that it polarizes the already entrenched "camps" of thinking, rather than help promote any kind of understanding. I think that a change in the thinking of teachers (including the depth of their training, as we're pretty much taught just that "guns are bad, get them out"...instead, what should be happening should be a discussion of how guns in the home can be made safer, to bring options to the table that the parents may not know even exists, or may not have thought of just yet) - as well as parents - need to occur, to really help kids be safer.



    -----


    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    As a parent myself, my guns are either on my person, in a proper holster that covers the trigger, OR they are locked up in a safe. When I handle them, I close and lock the door to avoid distractions.
    ^ +1, emphatically!

    I think that's a very important thing to highlight, particularly for new parents who have not yet come to a full understanding of just how distracting kids can be.

    That's why I'd written what I did to the member who is a mother, and who is in the process of trying to choose whether to carry or not.

    When I'm arming up in the AM, I tell my daughter that I need privacy to finish dressing. As I'm clearing the gun from the holster that it's stored in overnight, press-checking and making sure that the mag is topped-off, that is not a time when I want her running around and goofing off in my proximity.

    While perhaps not a factor in this particular case, this illustrates one of the dangers of "no gun zones." They force you to leave your weapon in your car, where it can be easily stolen, or fall into the wrong hands. While a vehicle safe helps, it is not a cure-all. And the fact is that the less you handle your weapon, the lower the risk of a negligent discharge. While we would all like to be safe all the time, the fact is that we all get tired, or distracted at times - especially if you have kids (I'm working on two years without a single night of uninterrupted sleep, thanks to our daughter). Had this gun been on the parent's body in a holster, this would not have happened.
    Again, +1, emphatically.

    I am still improving my techniques/practices for in-car disarming, heading in to "no gun zones."

  12. #42
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    There is no excuse for leaving a loaded gun within reach of children. None. Charges should be filed.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post
    ^ I don't even think that it's a "statistical possibility." Rather, it's the "remote possibility" that I just don't want to have happen.

    I'm a father of a 5 year-old. I've always dropped her off at "school" in the morning, and picked her up in the afternoon. I know the names of all her playmates. I'm the first face she sees in the morning, and the last she sees at night (and during the night). This is not to slight my wife - who is an incredible woman that juggles not only her career and family, but is a loving and caring wife on top of it all - but rather, it's to say that I spend a lot of time with children, and I've seen the strange and unexplainable things that they can accomplish.

    "Statistical probability" doesn't matter much to me - it's the unlikely potential that really chills me to the bone. How likely is it for the deceased child to have gotten into the console and shot herself? That's what I'm afraid of, and that's why my firearms are either in my hands/on my body or locked and inaccessible (in some manner or another).

    I agree, removing the round from the chamber is probably better than nothing, when the firearm is mishandled and left out in the open for anyone to come by and pick it up...and so is completely clearing the firearm of any ammo. Actually, prior to my daughter demonstrating inherent/unprompted understanding of the meaning of a firearm to be unloaded and "clear," I actually took the extra step of keeping the HD pistols in my quick-access safe both clear and with the magazine out.

    But the primary safety is still in having the firearm truly inaccessible.


    -----




    My wife is a practicing pediatrician, and yes, I can tell you first-hand that these types of statistics are what we were force-fed in the classrooms and on the wards. Sadly, I think the current teaching makes happen is that it polarizes the already entrenched "camps" of thinking, rather than help promote any kind of understanding. I think that a change in the thinking of teachers (including the depth of their training, as we're pretty much taught just that "guns are bad, get them out"...instead, what should be happening should be a discussion of how guns in the home can be made safer, to bring options to the table that the parents may not know even exists, or may not have thought of just yet) - as well as parents - need to occur, to really help kids be safer.
    I couldn't agree with you more.

  14. #44
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    That is sad to hear. but my question is why was the gun close enough for the child to reach? that is stupid thing right there. Why was the gun not on the person or lock up unloaded.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by rigel42 View Post
    418srEW9MdL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

    $27 Amazon.com: Handgun Storage Safe: Home Improvement

    There is no excuse for leaving a loaded gun within reach of children. None. Charges should be filed.
    And exactly what will that do? Teach the parents a lesson?

    These aren't bad people. Somebody had a lapse in judgement. Somebody made a terrible mistake and a tragedy occurred. Now you want to punish them further.....to prove, exactly what? Do you think that this incident won't haunt them the rest of their lives? Obviously, the death penalty would end their suffering. What penalty are you proposing?

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