My thoughts are more succinct: asshat. Time for a trespass.
This is a discussion on Dangerous Gun Handling at the Gun Store within the Basic Gun Handling & Safety forums, part of the General Firearm Discussion category; howdy 'all, As of recently Ive been workin a part-time gig at a local gun-stop to supplement the income. Benefits are quite nice, I got ...
As of recently Ive been workin a part-time gig at a local gun-stop to supplement the income. Benefits are quite nice, I got a .308 700 SPS tactical on the way at a very nice price, Ill give you guys a range report once I got it scoped and put some rounds down range but Ill just get right to my story.
Last Saturday, Im roaming the store and helping customers when out of the corner of my eye, my co-worker waves me down to help a guy who came up to gun counter. What I see next is just about the most disgusting violation of gun handling Ive ever seen in all the years Ive been handling them. This guy pulls away his coat, un-holsters his G26, takes out the mag, and unchambers the LIVE round in the store, in full view of other customers, right after doing what looked to be some synchronized boy-band dance that entailed pointing the muzzle in my direction. Instinctively, I step into an aisle thinking it will be some kind of cover, but realizing the weapon in question is cleared, I come back out expressing my angry disapproval. The following is how the conversation proceeds between myself and "Mr. Idiot."
Me: "NOT COOL, NOT COOL AT ALL."
Mr. Idiot: (with a tone of voice as if Im some kind of sheep,) "Dude its alright, Ive done this before. Ive had alot more training than most people. I know what Im doing, all the guys at (name of other Minneapolis gun-shop,withheld.) know me and theyre fine with it."
I go into lawyer/drill sergeant mode here.
Me: "First of all, your not in (other store). Your in MY store, that has the exact same rules as (other store) and I can tell you right now, they would be just as p-o'd as I am right now. Your a grown man who knows much better than to unholster a loaded weapon in a public place. I dont care how much training youve had, I dont care if all of SEAL team 6 walks into this place, the rules apply to everyone. Even at (other store who allows employees to open carry), this little talk were having is the minimum of how they would be dealing with you right now. Understood? Whats your question?
-during my shpeal, Mr. Idiot is constantly trying to interrupt me saying "its cool".
His question was about his retention holster and how his weapon wiggles around. There was no problem with retention, and the trigger is never exposed during all this wiggling. The concept of what makes an acceptable holster is something that everyone who goes through a CC course is made familiar with and there should be no confusion. It took me better than 5 minutes to explain this to him. At this stage of the game, im not feeling the slightest bit polite or customer service orientated, especially after having a gun pointed at me, coz Im getting the feeling this guy just came here to argue and show off his gun. (Its a glock, big deal.) My big worry right now is what's going to happen once I hand his gun back to him and if he's going to exercise the same poor judgement that brought him into my store with a loaded gun in the first place.
I ask him: "Do you have any more shopping to do?"
Idiot: "Well, I was going to go try on a pair of shoes and...
Me: "I want you to do me a favor, do not load this gun in the store."
Idiot: "Excuse me?"
Me: "I will not repeat myself one last time, do not load this gun the store."
I may have been a bit condescending, but Im beyond taking chances with this guy. I was ready to pull the slide off and tell him he can collect it when as he walks out the door. Ive played a lot of poker in my time, dealt with a lot of liars and shady characters in my time and my Spidey-sense was tingling. Rightfully so, coz as I handed him his weapon, he just dropped his bag and walked off. Three-steps later, he spins on his heel and comes back in my direction, gun in hand, gets in my face and says,
"That was offensive, THAT was offensive, I know your corporate policy towards concealed carriers and this is not it."
He just walked out of the store and that was the end of it, my head was still racing a mile a second coz at a split second notice, Im pulling out the SOG blade if he makes the wrong move. He had the look in his eye that Ive seen a million times before that is indicative an unstable person who is about to do something stupid. Corporate policy be damned, say I just folded underpressure and let him have free reign and chambers up another round in the store. People are going to think 1. Holy! He's robbing the place, or 2. Holy ! He's cuttin loose on the place! For those who would think #2, at any given moment, there is a substantial number of our customers in our store who are also carrying. Put 2 and 2 together and great, I have a potential gun fight on my hands. Im really more angry at myself coz while all this is going on, I take a submissive stance of leaning against the counter and folding my hands, putting myself at a disadvantage should this go horribly wrong. In the end, this may have actaully been what difused the situation. All I know at this point, is that there was a line customers trying to shake my hand and reassure me I did the right thing. Still, this was a wake-up call for me that situations can go wrong real fast. As the rumor mill gets started, another co-worker comes up to me and tells me about how this same guy has been in the store before. Apparently my co-worker got a physical description of the guy and immediately recognized him. Im then told the story about how this guy comes into the store, doesnt buy anything, and just argues with all the customers about the virtues of Glock and how all else is sub-standard. Nothin against Glock owners, but this is very annoying. To top it off, this same guy came in about a year ago, and started talking about his wife's friends as if they were a bunch of Anti's because they kicked him out his wife's corporate Christmas party for showing off his gun. My guess is that alcohol was involved.
I stand by my actions.
And now for your thoughts, let me have it.
My thoughts are more succinct: asshat. Time for a trespass.
I don't know about Minnesota law, but if Mr. Idiot were to do that here in Texas, he could be arrested and likely loose his permit.
If he comes in again and draws, don't hesitate to just hit the "Panic Button".
You've already explained store policy to him, you feel he is unstable.... Get the law involved!
I'm certain the police will be VERY sympathetic towards your more than reasonable concerns.
As the saying goes "You can't fix stupid". While stores may be CC friendly, that does not go to the point of unholstering loaded weapons. Common sense says if you have a question or concerns with a holster, you take the gun in unloaded.
Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.
NRA Life Member
You were surprisingly polite and tolerant. I would have asked him to leave immediately and called the police with a vehicle description & license plate for brandishing, assault 3rd, or anything else the officers could think of.
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
- Roy Batty
Gun stores in Ohio generally have signs on entrances prohibiting such practices. If I tried such a maneuver as a customer where I gun shop, I would likely have several employee handguns staring me in the face in short order. If your store does not have such a sign, it should. Language is usually as follows:
"All customer firearms must be checked and cleared at the service desk. While we welcome CHL holders, we require that such firearms remained holstered at all times while in the store."
Much nicer than I would have been. I think you did a great job with it, but he would not have been given the weapon back until he calmed down. A LOT. Or until there were police handy.
While I feel that withholding someone's weapon like that would be kinda borderline, I think it would be better than just handing it back over while he still has a loaded mag handy.
When I go into either of my LGS, the gun I'm shopping for is unloaded, and typically enters and exits the store in a case. The only time that doesn't happen is when I'm carrying it that day, so I just unload it and lock the slide/open the cylinder and show the person at the front desk that it's unloaded while holding it 'backwards (my hand over the barrel, fingers under/around trigger guard). But, that is a VERY rare thing for me to do. I usually 'carry' one, and take the one I'm shopping for in a case. -Also, because both stores I frequent typically have at least three people on staff OC/CCing at any given time, and I don't want to upset them in any way.
"Gun control should mean hitting your target every time."
Please try to remember- I have a very dry sense of humor. It usually sounds mean, but isn't meant to be.
Guys like that make CCers look bad and give shop owners reason to put up "No Loaded Guns" policy on their businesses. You did what you could to handle that jerk. If that was me, I have no problem correcting him or any other irresponsible gun handler on the spot as I have seen similar situations of poor gun safety in a showroom.
There has only been one time I un-holstered a loaded weapon at my local gun store, it was per the owners request and we were the only two in the store (small shop).
This guy was a douche bag and you kept your composure much better than I would have.
Mors est libertas
charge this jack-wagon with (thus causing his Macho-Man license to be revoked).
Of course, I'll reiterate my belief that this Mr. Idiot is suffering from a mental illness of some sort.
I think your actions in this case were measured. The guy is fool and a hazard. You'll be well rid of him as a customer if he never comes back.I stand by my actions.
And now for your thoughts, let me have it.
I really dislike being called "dude" by idiots, especially those young enough to be my grandchildren.Mr. Idiot: (with a tone of voice as if Im some kind of sheep,) "Dude its alright, Ive done this before.
I think you did fine. Remember the old adage, "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet because they might want to kill you." I think that there is still a place for being professional and courteous, even when confronting a tool like this guy obviously was. This is armchair quarterbacking for sure (and you did fine under pressure, so this is no criticism) but maybe it would be wise to plan for this kind of thing in the shop. One person is the very polite, professional, level headed one. The other employees deploy without fanfare to appropriate positions, ready to escalate the response if said customer decides to get frisky.
Just a thought.
"...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
Christianity and Self Defense from a Biblical Perspective
Gun store signs should read:
"No Shoes, No Shirt, Don't Follow the Rules .... No Service"