Cops and Guns

dukalmighty,
This may be true of smaller departments but most larger ones have 3 days to a week classroom and at least a week on the range with quals 4 times a year. What you say is true though about non-gun people becoming officers and never touching their firearms except for qualification. Sad but true. We kept a 30 gallon plastic barrel two thirds full of sand in the squad room for clearing handguns before monthly inspections. I started shooting everything in the family arsenal, with adult supervision, when I was about eight. Once I became a cop it was the highlight of my week to go to the range. I still love it but it isn't a police range since I retired.

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Originally Posted by dukalmighty

Believe it or not a lot of LEO's have never touched a gun until they get hired,they get a couple of hours of classroom training and then hit the range for live fire,once they shoot to qualify and pass,they may never shoot their gun again until they have to
qualify,and the General Public seems to think that because their firearms are like hammers to carpenters,that they are expert shots and masters of their weapons.
Sometimes in all honesty there are Leo's that make sure they are behind some dipsticks when they pull their guns since they are less likely to get shot there.

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Most LEO will never even draw their weapon, few will ever use it any where but on a range once or twice a year, unless they happen to be a person that enjoys sport shooting.
Bad guys are not in the habit of robbing,raping and just flat out gunning down police officers. I never read in the news that that it was a police officers house broke into.
The last police office in my area that was shot was in an off duty bar fight and facts seem to show he was not the good guy in all of it.. I would be willing to put money on most of a LEO shift has little to do with the firearm they wear. I over heard a conversation one time a man ask an officer about the weapon he carried he simply replied we carry what ever they tell us to. So much for basing your choice on what LEO or the Army carries.
Same with the Army I know many in head quarters units that have a hard time at the range, using that weapon is just not a big part of what they do. For many years I was very good with every weapon we had. But as more rank went on my time on the range went down by the time I retired I shot on the range once or twice a year and then only with my 92F.
Once in awhile while checking up on training I had a chance to get on line with an m4,saw or 240. I am no were near the so called expert some seem to think I am and betting the same applies to many LEO.

Hearing stories such as being discussed here, really really really boils my blood :mad:
These tools make all of us LEOs look bad and also are poster children for the antis.
IF the guy at Gander was actually a cop, and actually a narc agent....he is an absolute tool/idiot/moron, and embarrassment to us all. First (as pointed out), a cop open-carrying with a holster w/o retention is absolutely stupid (I carry with ALS/hood on duty, ALS off-duty). There are too many good options for retention--there are no excuses for any cop to not purchase one. We have a few in our dept (patrol off duty, detectives on duty) that wear an open top with no retention, or a simple leather snap. Not smart IMO.
Next, if he is a narc I'd hate to be working with him. Telling a complete stranger you are a narc agent is so stupid I can't fully express what I think on this forum.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of LEOs that are NOT "gun guys", and do some really stupid stuff. They are not the majority, but they sure garner media attention from every outlet in the country when they show their stupid.

I also believe that different parts of the country have different percentages of prospective LEOs that are experienced with guns. As for me, been shooting since 5 years old, hunted, had my own firearms starting at age 9.
My academy had 26 persons. 2 had never shot a gun at all....at all. 8 others had never shot a handgun. Another 5 or 6 hadn't shot anything in a few years. There were around 8 or 9 of us that would be considered shooters.
One of them that had never shot at all barely qualified. I happened to shoot beside that person at our last qual in October. We shot about 10 rounds, one at a time from the holster at the 5, then moved to 7 and did the same. When we were done and getting instructions for next string, I noticed this officer had put 6 round off the black....meaning they missed the 'person' entirely...shooting a Glock 19 at 7 yards. There were some detectives there too, some good some horrible. There are some officers that I hope are not my backup when the SHTF, they are few fortunately. The overwhelming majority will be a welcome sight when I need it.
We are fortunate that we get 50 free rounds a month to use at our range (sgt gives some of us more because we actually come out other than qual and practice--gave me some .223 for my practice session last time :danceban:)
I go every other week at a minimum, even if its just for 50 rounds of draws 1 or 2 on target and gone if I'm in a hurry. Most of the time its 200-300 for duty, off duty, and rifle each session.

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Originally Posted by Hiram25

Well, we've all heard it before! I'm the only person in this room qualified to handle this Glock! BANG!

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Just heard that guy lost his lawsuit against the DEA for making that video public. At least the judicial system can still do some things right.

DEA agent loses appeal over video of him accidentally shooting himself during gun safety demo - The Washington Post

I know many cops who don't even bother to carry off-duty.

Maybe it's not such a bad idea after all.

Just like CC holders, 99.9% can do everything perfectly, but that 1 guy who messes up makes everyone look bad.

Go to the range and you will see that maybe 20% of the shooters are knowledgeable. I don't care how good of a shot you are, my concern is firearm safety.

The gang bangers, the old farts, the guy showing his girl how to shoot, and the cops are the ones that scare me. The NRA types are the safe ones. Three old timers from the condo sharing one gun can take a few years off your life.

As much as I appreciate what LEO's do, to some of them it's just another job. My buddy Chris has about 6 weeks left in the academy and I tell him all the time if any one of us should be training it's you. That glock is going to be your life line and it seems to me that he either doesn't care, or doesn't realize the seriousness of the matter. I hope to God that he never needs to use his weapon but if he does hes gonna be in alot of trouble.

I don't agree with the way the guy acted and behaved, and what he said, but..................

If that had been me, first, I'd ignore you. If you persisted, I'd just tell you to mind your own business. I don't need somebody I don't know offering up a critique. I really don't quite understand why you felt so compelled. Just leave if you don't like it.

Other than that, welcome.

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Originally Posted by theskunk

The the old farts

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we didn't get to be old farts, by being careless.

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Originally Posted by SIXTO

sadly, CCW is even less qualification than that.

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Yes but individuals who carry guns because they want to, rather then they "have to" are generally enthusiasts. Many of them seek to get better therefore they seek out training. Also, a civilian only needs to learn how to react to a life threatening encounter vs. a LEO has to learn how to enforce the "Law". Learning how to "enforce" the law requires a lot more knowledge than simple drawing and pulling the trigger, when you feel backed into a corner and your life is in danger.

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Originally Posted by theskunk

Go to the range and you will see that maybe 20% of the shooters are knowledgeable. I don't care how good of a shot you are, my concern is firearm safety.

The gang bangers, the old farts, the guy showing his girl how to shoot, and the cops are the ones that scare me. The NRA types are the safe ones. Three old timers from the condo sharing one gun can take a few years off your life.

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The ones indicated in what I put in bold--- yikes.
There is a similar group that sends shivers up my back. They walk in with lots and lots of very expensive stuff. I've got nothing against having it all if you can afford it, but when it is show off time, they also tend to show off their poor handling.

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Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04

Yes but individuals who carry guns because they want to, rather then they "have to" are generally enthusiasts. Many of them seek to get better therefore they seek out training. Also, a civilian only needs to learn how to react to a life threatening encounter vs. a LEO has to learn how to enforce the "Law". Learning how to "enforce" the law requires a lot more knowledge than simple drawing and pulling the trigger, when you feel backed into a corner and your life is in danger.

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I agree to a point.... but if they are at the range on their own, are they not showing an interest the same as a normal gun owner? I agree with everything else you said.

Amazingly, LEOs have bad days and brain farts, too.

It's almost like they are... human or something.

He should have thanked you for catching his poor gun handling, but his being an LEO doesn't seem to have any bearing here.

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Originally Posted by SIXTO

sadly, CCW is even less qualification than that.

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That really depends upon your State.