This doesn't seem safe at all... - Page 2

This doesn't seem safe at all...

This is a discussion on This doesn't seem safe at all... within the Basic Gun Handling & Safety forums, part of the General Firearm Discussion category; True safety is unattainable? Apparently true on THEIR range. Arrogance and stupidity are a dangerous combination....

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Thread: This doesn't seem safe at all...

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Crescentstar's Avatar
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    True safety is unattainable? Apparently true on THEIR range. Arrogance and stupidity are a dangerous combination.
    "Clearly that's a YOU problem not a ME problem."


  2. #17
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    sorry to disagree; it may void all the safety rules but the camera man understands the consequents of his actions so who is to say not to do it. He is the one that suffers.

    One point that was brought up is that if you can’t train in close quarters with live ammo and trust the people you are with how you are going to be able to fire in a uncontrolled situation . this guy shoots closer to the people at the counter and didn’t hesitate



    edit: someone mention one time that when you are close to someone it lessens the chances of hitting them in a shootout.
    Last edited by barstoolguru; March 3rd, 2012 at 09:18 PM.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    sorry to disagree; it may void all the safety rules but the camera man understands the consequents of his actions so who is to say not to do it. He is the one that suffers.

    One point that was brought up is that if you can’t train in close quarters with live ammo and trust the people you are with how you are going to be able to fire in a uncontrolled situation . this guy shoots closer to the people at the counter and didn’t hesitate
    I must totally disagree. There is a difference with training with live rounds during CQB which has trained people who are wearing body armor and putting someone needlessly at risk. It is called a risk assesement which is done prior to any training, live rounds or not. Haveing a photographer that gives nothing to the training, wearing no protection, with students of undetermined skill is fool hardy. I have done live fire before and we would not do anything this foolish.

    IN Bold: It is the responsibility of the range safety officer or the person running the course to decide what is safe and what is not. It is not the say of a person to do what they please.

  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    I can see advantages to training under live fire conditions. But, only if it is with people I know, trust and have trained "extensively" with prior to attempting anything like this.

    I have trained in a similar manner; and knowing what it's like to have bullets whizzing by your head does a huge difference when you know you will face a real life threat. I have been caught inside a couple of firefights since that time; and I can tell you this type of training did help me remain calm & focused enough to do what I had to do.

    I may have been fine without this type of advanced training. But, I can't say that for certain.

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  5. #20
    Member Array hazard123's Avatar
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    Okay, I am speechless. I agree with a lot of what the guy said. But the guy downrange is a little over the top. Well, not speechless but almost. A lot of safety has gone over the top. He has a lot of common sense that flies in the face of todays safety Nazis. I think the guy has a lot of balls and I do not disagree with all he said and did. I would take one of his classes gladly.

  6. #21
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    One thing I like to say is all of you are good shots right? How many of you have ever had a stray bullet at 8 ft that would stray off your target far enough to hit him? my 40+ years of shooting I have never come close to being that far out of the X ring at 8 ft that I could even come close to hitting anything in between the targets

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array Crescentstar's Avatar
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    So, for the record, YOU would be where the cameraman was? I don't trust anyone that much.
    "Clearly that's a YOU problem not a ME problem."

  8. #23
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    Amazing how people will argue for foolhardiness!
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society

    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  9. #24
    DL
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    I forced myself to listen to this knucklehead's explaination though it was very convoluted, especially the part about the Pelpenetion War. This instructor should be evaluated by whatever insurance company has foolishly accepted him as a client and have his policy revoked. When the inevitable tragedy occurs it will unfortunately be a reflection on every tactical training facility, good or bad. Shut him down!

  10. #25
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crescentstar View Post
    So, for the record, YOU would be where the cameraman was? I don't trust anyone that much.
    What’s the pay scale like? I have been out of work a while and a big check sounds good.

    Would I do it? No but then I wouldn't be a stunt man and jump off a sears tower in Chicago either.

    It understanding the limits of what you are doing. Yes it goes against everything we are taught but camera men go into war zones all the time to get pictures.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    What’s the pay scale like? I have been out of work a while and a big check sounds good.

    Would I do it? No but then I wouldn't be a stunt man and jump off a sears tower in Chicago either.

    It understanding the limits of what you are doing. Yes it goes against everything we are taught but camera men go into war zones all the time to get pictures.
    That is part of the job and a necessity. Plus, most are wearing body armor and other protection

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
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    Nope I would never do that

  13. #28
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    Sounds like natural selection to me. Natural culling is not a bad thing lol.

  14. #29
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    So....true safety does not exist, so...go stand in front of a bunch of your students firing their guns? I would like to see what kind of a waiver he makes them sign. Must be a doozy.
    Gun Owners of America lifetime member since last week.

  15. #30
    Distinguished Member Array Elk Hunter's Avatar
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    If I were training and they said they were going to do a little camera work down range right next to my target I believe I would call it a day and leave. Maybe stand back and press 9-1 on my cell with my finger poised over the 1 just in case.

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