Firearms without External Safety, etc.

Firearms without External Safety, etc.

This is a discussion on Firearms without External Safety, etc. within the Basic Gun Handling & Safety forums, part of the General Firearm Discussion category; One of my first pistols was a Phoenix 22. That thing had more safeties that if I ever had to use it I would have ...

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Thread: Firearms without External Safety, etc.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    Apr 2007

    Firearms without External Safety, etc.

    One of my first pistols was a Phoenix 22. That thing had more safeties that if I ever had to use it I would have been in trouble. After Owning that Gun it seemed that every Gun I looked at that I wanted to be able to see a switch that showed me that the Gun was safe. I was mislead by my own ignorance.An inanimate object was not going to get me hurt but my own ignorance. Take time to learn about your firearms, especially the ones you will carry. Read about them and ask Questions. These guys on here are some of the smartest around.Pm one of them and you will find out. However The reason I am writing this is so that any newbies out there are concerned about external safeties on there firearm and CCW I would like to give you some encouragement. Be Patient, Be Prepared and Be Safe.This is one area when i first started carrying realized that I was not Comfortable. I wanted to carry a firearm but seemed unprepared. I now carry a KahrCW40 that has no external safety and that has taken alot of personal growth and learning about firearms and safety. The most important safety is not on the gun!
    Godspeed & Be Safe
    Why Would A Preacher ever need a Gun? Its Not for the Sheep , its for the Wolves!

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  2. #2
    jfl is offline
    Distinguished Member Array jfl's Avatar
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    Absolutely !!!

    "From the time an individual picks up a firearm, that person becomes a part of a system over which he has complete control. He is the only part of the system that can make a gun safe - or unsafe. "
    from the Mossberg manual

    Or as I say it: "The only safety is between your ears"
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

    (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    Nov 2007
    Also, external safeties can fail. It's a mechanical device.

    My P229 DAK has an internal safety (trigger activated firing pin block) so if by some wierd way the hammer drops without the trigger being pulled (maybe a worn sear?) it will not discharge. Barring that, I know that the only way my pistol is going to fire, is if I put my finger on that trigger and pull it (which of course, will only happen when I fully intend to fire, thanks to my following the safety rules).

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

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  5. #4
    Member Array concealed's Avatar
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    Nov 2008
    I agree. My holster is another safety and one some people do not count. A good holster, and DO NOT take gun out of holster except to use, or to place in storage when not CC.

    Seems like common sense to most of us, but I know some that treat it like a picture of a family member.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Oct 2007
    Amarillo, Texas
    I wish to offer one caveat about carrying a firearm without a safety. Do not carry in a pocket without a holster. Do not carry IWB without a holster. In fact do not carry without a holster period -- unless using a case or a briefcase [and even then it may be advisable to have it in a holster].

    As to a safety -- Even a manual safety can fail or unknowingly be turned off. Thus, one must never become over reliant on the presence of a manual safety.

    I love Glocks and similarly made pistols. However, I must admit that the addition of the grip safety on my XD gives me an additional feeling of safety. Further, we all should be mindful of the ever present "laws of Murphy." There are many good careful shooters whose lives were unexpectedly upset by the the law of Murphy.

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array frankmako's Avatar
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    the best safety is to keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire. safety or no safety, training is what counts when it comes to your carry gun.
    An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

    Red State State of Mind

  8. #7
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Fayetteville, AR

  9. #8
    BJC is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by preachertim View Post
    This is one area when i first started carrying realized that I was not Comfortable. I wanted to carry a firearm but seemed unprepared.
    +1. When I first got my pistol (XD40 cubcompact), I would wear it around the house in a holster awaiting my permit. At first, it was a little uncomfortable - and the gun wasn't even loaded. After a few weeks of carrying an unloaded firearm, going over the operation everyday, and researching others' comments it became natural to shoot/clean/carry. Understanding the operations and being well practiced in them will aid greatly in reducing the awkwardness of it.


  10. #9
    Member Array Klaatu's Avatar
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    Feb 2009
    I would not trade any of my Sig DA/SA pistols for any other variety. I know the pros and cons and make my choices.

    IMO, the most important safety factors are the training and mindset of the person, situational awareness and a good holster. If one has those covered, what is actually in the holster is a matter of personal preference.

  11. #10
    New Member Array Papabri's Avatar
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    Feb 2009
    I started carrying a year ago - a Bersa .380 CC IWB, because it concealed well and has a visible, tactile external safety.

    I have been encouraged to carry my GL 22, and a friend loaned me a really nice Galco SIL228 with a thumb snap. I was amazed at how comfortable, and light it feels, even with a heavier weapon.

    I'll be using that for my first tactical course next week, but admit I'm still uneasy about the no-safety thing.
    "The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subject peoples to possess arms. So let's not have any talk about native militias."
    -Adolph Hitler

  12. #11
    Member Array JimH58's Avatar
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    Northern Kentucky
    My two primary CCW are a Bersa 380 and a S&W 442 .38 special. The Bersa has an external safety but is also a DA/SA pistol which can be carried chambered with the safety off very safely following trigger safety procedures. The trigger pull in DA is fairly long and is about 8 lbs.

    The Smith is DA only and has about a 8 to 10 lb trigger pull.

    I tried carrying my S&W 9mm M&P but it is SA only and when chambered the trigger pull on it is less then 5 lbs. I never felt comfortable carrying it chambered because of the rather light trigger. Even with a good holster I still felt uncomfortable.
    S&W 442, Bersa 380, S&W 9mm M&P, Springfield XD40c
    Member: NRA, USCCA

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    The best safety any gun can ever have is not even part of the gun, it's the one between the ears. And it happens to be the one everyone has.
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

  14. #13
    Ron is offline
    Distinguished Member Array Ron's Avatar
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    Not debating the statements that the best safety is the one between your ears, but I prefer the extra security of a manual safety. Yes they can fail, and yes one should not be overreliant on them, but I still prefer the extra sense of comfort they provide for me.
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

  15. #14
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Hey, Ram Rod, what's your carry gun again...?

    Okay, I want to offer the alternative viewpoint here: a manual safety is not a necessity and should never be a crutch for bad weapons handling, but that does not mean it is not a viable option. A manual safety is a good option, for example, if you are more concerned with retention issues than with needing an extra split second to make a decision on a first shot.

    By the way, if the only necessary safety is the brain-to-finger connection, then why don't you all carry around 1911s cocked and unlocked with pinned grip safeties? After all, it can't go off unless you pull the trigger, and you obviously don't need a long double-action trigger pull to keep you from breaking an unwanted shot, and we know all you striker-fired guys are all about the consistent trigger pull...

    For the record, I own DA/SA guns and would carry a cocked-and-locked SAO gun. I have almost no interest in DAO autoloaders or striker fired guns. YMMV.
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

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