We've Won a Battle But Not the War - Page 2

We've Won a Battle But Not the War

This is a discussion on We've Won a Battle But Not the War within the Bob & Terry's Place forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by gasmitty Lima, that girl has traded one form of abuse for another. Dealing with the (recovering) stepdaughter's problems, we've learned that the ...

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Lima, that girl has traded one form of abuse for another. Dealing with the (recovering) stepdaughter's problems, we've learned that the attraction to abusive males has some deep roots and the long-term cure will take being around supportive friends and family, getting therapy, and ultimately feeling stronger and more positive about herself. I'm not qualified to talk about self-esteem and co-dependency and such, but those are words that probably will be heard as your sister gets the help she needs to heal.
    Agreed.. Unfortunately, she has traded one abusive relationship for the next for nearly 15 years. I can honestly say she has never had a healthy relationship. Every guy she's ever been with since her first high school boyfriend. It's is very seriously pathological with her.

    We were really hoping that when she said "enough" with her husband it meant she was ready for serious change and then she started seeing this other guy. He seemed nice but NONE of us completely liked him or the circumstances. Turns out we were right and things just went from bad to worse and we realized that once again she just traded one form of abuse for YET ANOTHER one.

    We all know she needs serious serious counseling to find the root of all of this and the strength to stand up for herself. Until that time there's nothing we can do but help her in any way we can and right now that's at least by getting her physically away from a man who is escalating in his physical violence in a frightening manner.


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post

    As stated above, I don't know about the legalities of these things. Can someone take out a restraining order on her behalf if she doesn't want it?

    To put it bluntly, she is TERRIFIED of him. He is a former police officer and kept her silent for weeks because of his talk of "knowing the system" and being buddies with the officers and knowing what to say and how to say it, etc. He also extensively talked about how he would kill her and dispose of the body, etc. Lots of scary, scary stuff. Of course it's all hearsay from me because even though I believe what my sister told me I have no evidence and there is no evidence except for the fading bruises on her arms from his man-handling her. A lot of the other physical signs of abuse have already faded.

    Now, I'm sure if he were harassing the person she were staying with they could take out a restraining order so at least he would have to stay away from the people she's going to be staying with but I doubt very seriously she will want to take a restraining order out on him for fear that she will only make him more angry and actually want to come after her.

    Believe me, I'd love to move her out of state but she can't. She's still going through her divorce from her husband and it's a very very nasty one filling with custody battles, etc. She needs the job she's hanging on to for dear life and she needs to be there for her court dates and meetings with lawyers, etc. If that weren't the case I'd be all about getting her as far away from BOTH of these guys as physically possible.
    OK.

    #1 Get an attorney that deals with domestic violence issues. He/she will know how to write the restraining order affidavit in a way that will get it granted by a judge temporarily before a hearing, and then be able to represent her at the hearing so that the order will continue after the hearing.

    He can "Know people" all he wants to - but if he's got an RO, then no firearms for him. No buying them, no carrying them, no owning them.

    Instant felony.

    #2 You can (probably) be amended to her order, as you are a family member of the vic.

    #3 Before she goes to court for the divorce, find out who is the head marshal on duty while she will be at the court. Fax him a copy of the restrainng order, and inform him the protected person will be at court from X time to X time dealing with other matters, and as the docket is public information, please watch out for her restrained ex.

    #4 If you see the restrained-ex in violation of the order - you call the police. No "I'll do it next time if you don't leave now..."

    #5 If his buddies show up and fail to take him in on a violation of the RO...internal affairs is always willing to screw people. The attorney who can write a proper RO affidavit can handle writing an IA complaint against officers who didn't take a court order seriously and endangered people...and knows to fax the DA about cops not taking their obligations seriously.

    (Yes, I do subscribe to "Law is warfare" method. How could you tell?)

    #6 publicrecords.com is your friend. Find out about his life everything you can. Buy the enhanced package on someone. It may cost you a bit...but it's worth knowing. Relatives names and addresses...the floor plan for his building/house from the town clerk. File a FOIA request with the PD for his file and see if you can get that too.

    Know EVERYTHING.

    If a FOIA request doesn't help with that, see if you can ask her lawyer to subpoena it for the Restraining Order hearing.

    You may get it, likely not...but it will show you are pusing back on all fronts...and in ways he's not able to fight as easily.

    #7 Inform her job of the RO, and that he's not allowed near the job if the RO is granted. Even if it isn't tell HR about it. If they are 1/2 way decent, they will tell security to watch for him and call the po-po on him.

    #8 Does she have credit cards? If not, get them. She's going to need opperating capitol in the event she has to get out of dodge. She can do a Chapter 7 later if she gets in too deep and can't get out of debt by paying it off.

    #9 Doctor's exam. Full workup with documentation of abuse. Plus you need to know her physical conditions anyway in case you have to ship her off some place. You don't want to not know she was borderline diabetic or she was in need of meds for something else while she's hiding at a cabin owned by your husband's former girlfriend's father you are on good terms with that is 60 miles outside nowhere...

    I take it she's probably a wreck, and a good once over by a doctor & dentist can't hurt.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    He is not a man. He is a POS. My sister was caught up in the same thing, and it got me into alot of trouble for my actions. The entire family is effected. My thoughts and prayers are with you and the family.

    Hint; a thick glass pitcher, such as commonly found in bars, smashed across the head does wonders for cure to this disease.
    Glockman and I come formthe same geographic region and are probably taught a lot of the same ways. Back in the day this particular citizen would be visited at 0 dark 30 by men in dark clothes with blunt objects and be physically and verbally instructed to cease and desist this antisocial behavior.....Hillbilly vigilante turned off...

    Now the Psychology of this disease you sister has is exactly what she displaying. They all think the abuser didnt mean it and things will get better and they will be back together at somepoint. Look for a local Batterers Intervention and Prevention Program (BIPPS) or a Domestic Violence Task Force Agency maybe even the local human services agency/welfare dept. They will have resiurces to get her in to counseling...you need to get it started soon before she starts reconciling with this jack-donkey.
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    Having dealt with mental illness in my family, I can only say that you cannot really do anything for her until she realizes she has a problem. You can't help those who don't think they need help. Took me a long time to accept that.

    Good luck, prayers out.
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  5. #20
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    Prayers offered. Blessings on your sister and the entire family.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
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  6. #21
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    I have dealt with this with two of my sisters. Moving them hundreds or thousands of miles away and having them start over was the best possible solution. Luckily our family is spread from coast to coast and have that ability.

    I certainly hope that after her divorce is final that is an option for her. Hopefully she will break her cycle of abusive relationships, although that doesn't seem to be the pattern for most women like her.

    Good luck to her and the rest of your family.
    Last edited by farronwolf; June 21st, 2011 at 03:15 PM.
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  7. #22
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    Lima - I have no experience in this arena and nothing to offer to this discussion. I will pray for your sis and all her support group. Hopefully, she will, as you did, find a way to break the pattern and find a good guy who will love, cherish and protect her.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    Agreed.. Unfortunately, she has traded one abusive relationship for the next for nearly 15 years. I can honestly say she has never had a healthy relationship. Every guy she's ever been with since her first high school boyfriend. It's is very seriously pathological with her.

    We were really hoping that when she said "enough" with her husband it meant she was ready for serious change and then she started seeing this other guy. He seemed nice but NONE of us completely liked him or the circumstances. Turns out we were right and things just went from bad to worse and we realized that once again she just traded one form of abuse for YET ANOTHER one.

    We all know she needs serious serious counseling to find the root of all of this and the strength to stand up for herself. Until that time there's nothing we can do but help her in any way we can and right now that's at least by getting her physically away from a man who is escalating in his physical violence in a frightening manner.
    I see this crap day in and out, and its a very typical situation. Usually, women like this keep repeating the cycle because of low self worth and its what they know. Comfort in familiarity I guess. Abusive guys tend to be able to hone in on this too as well, selecting a submissive mate so they can be a "hotshot".

    What I suggest needs done is out of your control. No more relationships until she goes through some therapy and counseling, and certainly no moving in with new dude. There needs to be that independence and she needs to be able to get over the fear of being alone. There is group support available too, much like AA. It might take years before she is ready, but that is what it takes. There are lots of repairs that need made to break the cycle. Unfortunately, she is also teaching the child and interjection that kid into the same cycle.
    Bark'n, oneeyedwilly and 357and40 like this.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I see this crap day in and out, and its a very typical situation. Usually, women like this keep repeating the cycle because of low self worth and its what they know. Comfort in familiarity I guess. Abusive guys tend to be able to hone in on this too as well, selecting a submissive mate so they can be a "hotshot".

    What I suggest needs done is out of your control. No more relationships until she goes through some therapy and counseling, and certainly no moving in with new dude. There needs to be that independence and she needs to be able to get over the fear of being alone. There is group support available too, much like AA. It might take years before she is ready, but that is what it takes. There are lots of repairs that need made to break the cycle. Unfortunately, she is also teaching the child and interjection that kid into the same cycle.
    I contacted a local abuse shelter and talked to the adviser there for a little while specifically asking for counseling and group support meetings she might be able to go to. She sent some information to me and to my parents and I had her send some information to my sister (at her new address).

    My parents read the pamphlets they sent and say going down the list of abuse is like reading a list of what my sister has gone through. What's worse is they have a sheet describing the behaviors and personality of a child who has witnessed abuse and it is another list perfectly describing her child. They've sat down with her and showed her all of this and she recognizes it but just two night ago she went out with this guy and spent the night with him.

    We all feel like we're beating our heads against a stone wall.

    The worst part is that I've been where she is. I've been in two abusive relationships. The first was just manipulative and emotionally abusive and opened me up for the second that turned physically abusive and it gave me the biggest wake-up call of my life. I broke the pattern and happily ran from what was going on in my life but I understand her fear and her hope and her love for the guy. I really do because I was there. I went back again and again and again because I loved him and because I hoped he would change and because I feared losing him or being alone. It wasn't until I decided that being alone for the rest of my life would be better than putting up with being treated that way did I really get anywhere.

    So when I look at my sister I see myself and I wish I could get her to that same point. That point where she knows that nothing is worth this abuse. Not any promises of love or a future or any other lies he'll give her. I don't know how I got to that point on my own but if I knew I'd put it in a bottle and give it to her. I really feel very helpless.

    In the end I found myself being strangled in some guy's garage after he beat and raped me. I pray to God it doesn't have to get to that point with her.

  10. #25
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    lt, you are an amazing woman! I hope the Lord will open your sister's eyes so she can learn from your experience. Praying that will happen...soon!
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

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  11. #26
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    Prayers sent and I wish you the best in keeping your sister away from this and all future people like him. Hang in there for her Lima.

    And may I say that you are an amazing person. I never knew you went through the things you just talked about in the post above. I'm glad you broke the cycle and found JD.
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  12. #27
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    It's not the best news but it's a darned good start. At least she's made the decision on her own to leave. That means there's room to work and to grow. It's like that old lead a horse to water concept. She decided on her own this time. Hopefully with some counseling and love from family she'll keep going the right direction(AWAY from these POS's). Good luck.
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  13. #28
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    I can't imagine anyone having an ongoing relationship with someone who has described how they will kill you and despise of your body. Frightening and understandably frustrating, prayers to you and yours. If it were my sister, daughter, cousin, I wouldn't rule out the 0 dark-thirty therapy session. Not saying that's prudent or that I would follow through, but it would certainly be something I would have crossing my mind. However, MitchellCT has provided you with the best approach, glad he's a member of our forum.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post

    We all feel like we're beating our heads against a stone wall.

    And in the end, that may be exactly what you are doing. No one can force her to see the light. If you believe in God, then you know that God gave us all free will. While he is deeply saddened and heartbroken when we turn away from him, he won't stop us from choosing to do so.

    Your sister has the ultimate choice of doing as she pleases. You and your family may have to come to grips with that.

    In the mean time, you continue to show her love and support, provide her with the ability to choose what is healthy for her and her child by continuing to help her seek out help and solutions.

    The cycle of abuse is a deep and vicious cycle which is hard to break. It's every bit as tough as trying to beat a meth addiction, and in the end, a lot of people just can't or won't do it.

    When you've done all you can do, you have to have the courage to let her go, when it comes to the point of being detrimental to your own mental health and well being. It may even come to the point of taking steps to have her child removed from her care. An attorney will certainly be able to guide you if that is even feasible.

    The stain of domestic violence is a stain on the very fabric of America. It is all too common a situation for many people. And like SIXTO, is something I deal with day in and day out, around the clock. Three in the afternoon or three in the morning, it's something we deal with. It can be emotionally draining for the public safety worker if you let it. As a professional you learn to be detached to keep your emotions in check. But it doesn't mean a particular incident here or there does not have an effect on you.

    You are in my thoughts and prayers. You've gotten some good advice here, and you know you have everyone's support. Will keep you guys in my prayers.

    Hang in there, and keep your chin up. We are all hoping for the best.
    -Bark'n
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmycek View Post
    However, MitchellCT has provided you with the best approach, glad he's a member of our forum.
    Yeah...its not like I do this kind of thing professionally or anything...

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