Disgusted, PO'd, Heartsick, and Mad as a Wet Hen............Stupid Shooters!!!!!!!!!! - Page 2

Disgusted, PO'd, Heartsick, and Mad as a Wet Hen............Stupid Shooters!!!!!!!!!!

This is a discussion on Disgusted, PO'd, Heartsick, and Mad as a Wet Hen............Stupid Shooters!!!!!!!!!! within the Bob & Terry's Place forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Walking a dog off leash in an area where coyote hunting is legal? As a dog trainer I get angry hearing stories like this. The ...

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Thread: Disgusted, PO'd, Heartsick, and Mad as a Wet Hen............Stupid Shooters!!!!!!!!!!

  1. #16
    Member Array Las Vegan's Avatar
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    Walking a dog off leash in an area where coyote hunting is legal? As a dog trainer I get angry hearing stories like this. The "voice trained" dog who crossed the street to greet a neighbor and gets hit by a car. The "perfectly trained" dog who jumps out the open window of a moving vehicle. The "dog that sticks to my side like glue" who panicks when a car back-fires and runs off down the road. Use a leash and keep your poor dog safe. There is no reason to walk your dog off leash other than laziness and arrogance.
    Civil_Response likes this.


  2. #17
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    Any words for the coyote hunters, Las Vegan? Is there a place in the world without danger where a dog may walk off of a leash free from a bad shoot? Hunters respect use of lethal force. Some lessers don't.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  3. #18
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    not offering to help out with vet expenses
    They offered to pay one-half. I guess they thought the dog was proportionally liable for the other half, being in the wrong place. Maybe they thought they were in Las Vegas.


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Las Vegan View Post
    There is no reason to walk your dog off leash other than laziness and arrogance.
    Probably true on "The Strip". Out here our dogs get to chase rabbits now and then, usually without getting shot by some yahoo.
    surefire7 likes this.

  5. #20
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    There is no excuse on behalf of those morons.

    I've let many deer walk because I'm not going to shoot at a brown patch of fur through the brush.

    I'd always rather go home empty-handed then broken-hearted.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array stevem174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Las Vegan View Post
    Walking a dog off leash in an area where coyote hunting is legal? As a dog trainer I get angry hearing stories like this. The "voice trained" dog who crossed the street to greet a neighbor and gets hit by a car. The "perfectly trained" dog who jumps out the open window of a moving vehicle. The "dog that sticks to my side like glue" who panicks when a car back-fires and runs off down the road. Use a leash and keep your poor dog safe. There is no reason to walk your dog off leash other than laziness and arrogance.
    Really??? That is one heck of a blanket statement.

    There aren't too many people out there that can give a dog a good workout while on leash. Sure you can run with them but you are not taxing their cardiovascular system nearly as well as you are taxing your own. You can bike with them but that doesn't touch their sprinting needs. You can put them on a treadmill and get both goals covered. However if you are using a human grade treadmill, you have to be concerned about causing orthopedic problems from the dog "short striding" their gait.
    surefire7 likes this.
    Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!

    Stupidity should be painful.

  7. #22
    Member Array Carnivoire's Avatar
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    So sorry to hear about this kind of foolishness...

    I can not believe that some sort of charge could not have been levied here.... DNR has nothing to say either?

    My 14yr old daughter got her 1st deer this year (Only her 2nd year so I was hunting next to her in a ladder stand). To my satisfaction - she passed up 4 in tall grass previously, because she could not see the point of impact through the tall grass.
    As a hunter, I have a responsiblity for safety AND a ethical, clean harvesting of the animals. That includes IDENTIFYING the animal before shooting.

    Common sense is often overlooked as assumed knowlege.
    Pistology likes this.

  8. #23
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    Exclamation Great News

    Great news tonight, R is well on the mend today after a really rough Sunday. On Sunday she would not come out of her owners closet and buried her nose in the dark corner, and bacon, eggs, cat food, salami, cheese and pastrami would not lure her out. This morning she ate well, and joined in the morning routine feeding the horses while carrying her favorite Nylabone around and chewing with vigor. What resilience!

    I have also learned more about the "shoot" and will post that later.

    Here she is 48 hours later, with a "T" on to keep the wound clean. More later.
    Attached Images
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    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  9. #24
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    Sad story! Idiots should not have guns. If I was anywhere near the dog, I'd be claiming they tried to kill me, missed and hit the dog.
    "I was in fear for my life".

  10. #25
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    Angry More Information

    Here's another update:

    Yesterday, we went back and took photos and videos of the location where this occurred. It was SO painful to see all the blood splatter where she was shot. Due to the snow, we were able to very clearly see where the hunters hiked 0.5 mi down the trail from the road/trailhead, went off the trail about 50 feet and stood/waited under a tree where there was no snow. We measured that R was shot approx. 90 feet from where their footprints stopped (close range in my opinion and IMPOSSIBLE not to recognize a large dog with an orange collar and tags) and they were shooting down the hill. J was about 150 feet below, hiking up from the lower trail, which cannot be seen from the upper trail as there are two small ridge plateaus before it drops down to the lower trail along the beaver ponds. He could have been in the line of fire if he had topped the ridge.

    In response to some of the emails I have received, I also want to clarify that in the part of the national forest where we hike, it is governed by the DOW, not local city or county laws. Dogs ARE allowed off leash there, so we were not breaking any rules when we hiked there with our dogs off lead (and if we were, I still think it should not be ok to shoot a dog - what if it were someone's lost pet?). The forest service leash law applies to forest service campgrounds, state parks, national parks, national monuments and designated wildlife areas, or trails specifically marked as leash areas. Also, we are not currently in a designated hunting season, but apparently shooting coyotes can be done at any time - there is not a "season". I've had emails that if our dogs had been leashed, it wouldn't have happened. That is probably true. Unfortunately, we enjoy watching our dogs run, play and sniff while we hike with them loose, but under supervision, and we were doing so legally. I also want to express that while I may not like hunting/shooting, I understand that the national forest is there for all of us to enjoy, and I am not trying to stir up any controversy about whether or not hunting/shooting should be allowed. I am only saying that if someone shoots something, he/she needs to be 100% accurately positively certain that their target is what they think it is - species, gender and that shooting down a hill on which you cannot see the bottom of is not safe.
    All valid points, and if the 90 feet (30 yard) distance is correct, I am appalled. A 75-80 pound Malamute/Husky mix with an orange collar could NEVER be confused with a coyote topping out at 40 pounds max. Sounds like absolute idiocy, and if the description of the terrain is accurate, the shot should NEVER have been taken in my opinion, regardless of the target.

    I am still pretty disturbed, but glad the dog is much better.

    I have suggested a Sheriffs Report be filed.
    Last edited by Rock and Glock; December 13th, 2011 at 10:40 AM. Reason: Clarification


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  11. #26
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    I am very sorry to hear that this happened...I'm not sure what I have done.
    Glad the dog will recover.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  12. #27
    Member Array Las Vegan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology View Post
    Any words for the coyote hunters, Las Vegan? Is there a place in the world without danger where a dog may walk off of a leash free from a bad shoot? Hunters respect use of lethal force. Some lessers don't.
    Sorry, I thought it was obvious to you that the shooters were idiots. What I don't get is when someone puts their dog in a dangerous situation and blames everyone but themselves when it goes south. And yes, a dog off leash in a place where coyotes are shot is a dangerous situation, in case that isn't obvious also.

    "I've had emails that if our dogs had been leashed, it wouldn't have happened. That is probably true. Unfortunately, we enjoy watching our dogs run, play and sniff while we hike with them loose, but under supervision, and we were doing so legally."

    And there you have it. It's probably true that if the dog had been on leash it wouldn't have gotten shot, but they enjoy watching it run.

    *face palm*

    Glad to hear that the dog is doing well.

  13. #28
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    Las Vegas: In case laziness and arrogance get in your way, this was not in a spot anyone over the age of 8 or with an IQ over 75 would be shooting. .5 mile off a road, close to one of the largest housing developments in the county, with over 1,000,000 OTHER acres in Pike National Forest to shoot. Shooting downhill with a lot of blue sky. Wrong. With over 5 million visitor days to this forest annually, hunters need to have more brain-power than their quarry. Regardless of the fact the hunters were dolts, and you want to blame the owners, I suggest you get off of your rear, out of the city, and try hunting quail over a dog on a leash, or having your retriever fetch that duck while on lead, since a leashed dog is the only safe dog in your book. Not a perfect analogy, but it makes my point.

    Most properties are over 5 or 10 or 35 acres out here, or more, and yes, our dogs run the properties, and they are well trained, maybe even by your standards, but don't apply your Las Vegas standards to us, and condemn our behaviors when you know nothing about us. By the way, we shoot dogs that harass livestock out here, and don't give a damn if it's on a lead or not. Our cattle and horses are worth a hell of a lot more than some mutt, pet or not. A warning first. Once.

    Furthermore, an 80 pound dog is extremely distinguishable from a coyote at the distance shot, particularly with an ORANGE safety collar, so no, that is not inherently stupid of the owners as you imply, just as the location was not inherently stupid of the owners.

    That is just my .02. It was a Bad Shoot by an IDIOT. No, I do not blame the dog or the owner. I blame the jerk pulling the trigger. A shooter is responsible for his bullet.

    By the way, welcome to the forum.
    wmhawth, surefire7, tkruf and 3 others like this.


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  14. #29
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    I was actually at a deer check-in station one year when two yahoo's from the city tried to check in a goat as the "deer" they shot.

    People go absolutely buggy when hunting season rolls around. Conservation agents were called and he confiscated their firearms, the goat and issued a citation. Don't know the amount of the fine, or if they ended up getting their hunting privileges yanked, but there are extremely stupid people out hunting every year.

    I refuse to hunt on public conservation land, but even that doesn't guarantee some idiot won't mistake me for a deer when I'm on private property either.

    I'm glad your friends dog is okay. Nice looking dog!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #30
    Member Array JerryMac's Avatar
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    sad story, I have always been taught to be one hundered percent sure of what I am shooting before pulling the trigger......some give a bad name to all...
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

    I asked my stock broker the other day, what I should be investing in ....his reply, canned goods n ammo !!!

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