Disgusted, PO'd, Heartsick, and Mad as a Wet Hen............Stupid Shooters!!!!!!!!!! - Page 3

Disgusted, PO'd, Heartsick, and Mad as a Wet Hen............Stupid Shooters!!!!!!!!!!

This is a discussion on Disgusted, PO'd, Heartsick, and Mad as a Wet Hen............Stupid Shooters!!!!!!!!!! within the Bob & Terry's Place forums, part of the The Back Porch category; J called the Teller County Sheriff's department and the Division of Wildlife. Apparently, as long as the "hunters" "believed" that they were shooting a coyote, ...

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Thread: Disgusted, PO'd, Heartsick, and Mad as a Wet Hen............Stupid Shooters!!!!!!!!!!

  1. #31
    Member Array SmokinLawyer's Avatar
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    J called the Teller County Sheriff's department and the Division of Wildlife. Apparently, as long as the "hunters" "believed" that they were shooting a coyote, they are within their rights to shoot and/or kill dogs, hiking alongside their owners, with absolute impunity.
    Don't make the mistake of believing a local government agency's employees have given you accurate information about the law in this circumstance. Talk to your attorney about topics like "reckless endangerment", "negligent discharge of a firearm" and a civil action for damages. I don't disagree the two men should rot in hell; I just think you'll find it more satisfying if they arrive with their attitudes adjusted and their pockets empty.
    "The problem with trusting quotes on the internet is they're so hard to authenticate." - Benjamin Franklin


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I gotta admit that these two didn't identify their target before shooting,It would be like somebody shooting an elk but claiming they thought it was a deer,the game warden is gonna arrest you for shooting an elk.
    It wasn't too long ago Sept 2009 that a 14 and 16 year old went bear hunting,there was a female hiker wearing a bright blue poncho that was shot and killed approximately 120 yards away on a hiking trail out in the open.
    The main thing that burns my ass,is that when hunters shoot a person and claim it was an accident seem to walk away without being charged for a crime.but shoot the wrong Game Animal other than what your licensed to take and get the book thrown at you
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  3. #33
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I can see how that dog may be mistaken as a coyote by a novice hunter with limited experience hunting coyotes as these two definitely proved by their selection of "stands" and shooting of a domestic animal. The animal is very similar to a coyote in both coat and silhouette and a novice hunter may not be able to discern between 40 and 80 lbs especially with winter coats and we just don't know the details on how the shot was taken.

    I would also be thankful that they were so inept that they used a poor ammo choice and had poor shooting skills at 30 yards or that poor dog may be dead. If they were using any type of ammo designed to be "explosive" or "frangible" and kill varmint like coyotes such as the hornaday vmax bullet, which does incredible damage to a coyote especially from 25-50 yards, that dog may not have stood a chance. Be thankful that these hunters were inept because if they were not, the animal may be dead by now. Inept in choice of stands, inept in target id, inept in ammo and caliber choice ( what were they using btw if you know) , and inept in putting a shot in the kill zone at such a short range from a stationary stand.

    May I make a suggestion to your friend, if he wishes to continue to allow his dogs unleashed freedom on trails maybe he should use something like that t-shirt to identify them, or a reflective vest designed for hunting dogs..... it won't stop all idiots but it may be the difference.....

  4. #34
    Member Array Speculator's Avatar
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    Sorry for your friend's near-tragedy but evidently, his dog is not trained well enough to be off leash on a busy trail. ALL dogs should be on a leash if they are not in a fenced dog park, imo. I say this having been jumped on and scratched by 'friendly' dogs too many times.

  5. #35
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    My wife is making them 2" wide Orange Reflective collars. That should stop most dolts. We also use safety orange, yellow and green equipment ourselves.

    Speculator: The dog was ID'd poorly, the shooting venue was inappropriate, the range too close to misidentify, downhill with a lot of blue sky, the dog had an orange collar. The discussion is POOR shooting habits (failure to ID a target, failure to have a safe impact area, etc.), not an indictment of a dog or its' owner. It could as easily been a kid or the downhill adults. There are the Four Rules for a reason, and the SHOOTER failed one or two. Sorry you have been scratched and dealt with poorly trained dogs and their owners. I am sorry. My dogs do not jump on people, but neither do we take them to dog parks where other dogs I do not know are running free and controlled or not controlled by the unknown owners.

    Welcome to the forum too.

    This whole thread brings up some interesting points on "Points of View". Those that want to blame a victim, and those that don't. Personally, when my wife and I are riding our horses in the NF during hunting season, we probably look like circus clowns. Because our horses are chestnut and sorrel, we wear safety gear of every color imaginable, and have safety colored saddlebags and additionally safety tapes fluttering in the breezes, attached to their chest plates and tails. I personally would prefer not to be shot off of my mount, nor have my boy shot out from under me. Just personal preference.

    So............if I ride in the NF and my horse is shot out from under me, am I to blame? That is the argument some herein are attempting to make, so be forewarned, I do not suffer fools gladly.
    HotGuns, wmhawth, Back 40 and 1 others like this.


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    Very sorry to hear of this incident. Beautiful dog. I'm glad she is going to be ok. I smell a civil suit for Vet bills. Pay half! My rear! They would be paying all of it.
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  7. #37
    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    My wife is making them 2" wide Orange Reflective collars. That should stop most dolts. We also use safety orange, yellow and green equipment ourselves.
    First, I'm glad to hear the dog is recovering and seems to be doing okay. I in no way am making excuses for the hunters lack of judgment in hunting practices.

    Why stop with a color, even 2" wide. On the first day of hunting season my dog got a Blaze orange vest that was his daily outfit until the last day of hunting season. He only roamed free (off leash) on Sundays when it's not legal to hunt in VA. I live on 22 acres surrounded by similar size parcels of land with a hunt club that regularly hunts on the other side of the creek that borders the back of my property. The object was not to give the bozo's a chance to shoot my dog. Just like Criminals, I don't trust them to do the right thing or give them the chance to prove me wright.
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  8. #38
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Yeah this is the kind of thing that scares me in my area. I live in a wooded, rural area and I swear the knuckle-heads around here have a COMBINED IQ in the single digits. Thankfully I have almost a full acre that's cut and clear for the dog to play in. I don't take the dog with me when I'm out hiking during the colder months. Too many yahoos out to mistake my light tan colored 80lb dog for a small deer.
    Glad to see the dog survived though.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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  9. #39
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    [QUOTE=WHEC724;2100726]There is no excuse on behalf of those morons.

    I've let many deer walk because I'm not going to shoot at a brown patch of fur through the brush.

    I'd always rather go home empty-handed then broken-hearted.[/
    QUOTE]




    ^^^^^^^^^^^^I agree with bold^^^^^^^^^^^

    ^^^Can't say for certain what was going through the hunters heads.^^^^^^

    Should they have known the likelyhood was there for them to quite possibly cross paths with hikers joggers dogwalkers and such???
    YES.

    My children and nephews all got a copy of this when they began hunting with us;


    A Father's Advice
    If a sportsman true you’d be
    Listen carefully to me. . .

    Never, never let your gun
    Pointed be at anyone.
    That it may unloaded be
    Matters not the least to me.

    When a hedge or fence you cross
    Though of time it cause a loss
    From your gun the cartridge take
    For the greater safety’s sake.

    If twixt you and neighbouring gun
    Bird shall fly or beast may run
    Let this maxim ere be thine
    “Follow not across the line.”

    Stops and beaters oft unseen
    Lurk behind some leafy screen.
    Calm and steady always be
    “Never shoot where you can’t see.”

    You may kill or you may miss
    But at all times think this:
    “All the pheasants ever bred
    Won’t repay for one man dead.”



    Written by Mark Beaufoy of Coombe House, Shaftesbury, Dorset, England, in 1902, on presenting his eldest son, Henry Mark, with his first gun. Reproduced here by permission of the author’s granddaughter, Mrs. P. M. Guild.
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  10. #40
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    Thumbs up Update on Good Progress

    Good news pretty much all around, from the dog healing to the appropriate officials taking the matter seriously and investing time and effort in an investigation.

    First of all, R appears to be continuing to improve. While she still moves very gingerly and cautiously, she is spending more time up, and is getting better at navigating the stairs. She does not go into the closet anymore to hide. She is eating about half of her meals. Continued progress!

    J and I met today with officers from the DOW, Forest Service, Teller County Animal Control, and Teller County Sheriff's Department. We all walked the area where the shooting took place. The various departments are trying to objectively determine what, if any, violations may have occurred. While there is no specific penalty for mistakenly shooting a domestic animal instead of a wildlife target, there may be some type of violation that the hunters could be charged with. The officers informed us that at this point they were just trying to collect information, and were talking to both us and the hunters. Once they have the information they want/need, the various departments will be consulting with each other to determine what will be done, if anything.

    L had an interview with Ch. 5 news yesterday afternoon, and it aired last night at 10 pm


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array stevem174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speculator View Post
    Sorry for your friend's near-tragedy but evidently, his dog is not trained well enough to be off leash on a busy trail. ALL dogs should be on a leash if they are not in a fenced dog park, imo. I say this having been jumped on and scratched by 'friendly' dogs too many times.
    Kinda hard to train a "area search" -search and rescue dog on leash. The mass majority of SAR dogs across the country are trained and handled by civilians. They may deploy under the control of a agency but most of the training is done on their own time and dime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Good news pretty much all around, from the dog healing to the appropriate officials taking the matter seriously and investing time and effort in an investigation.
    That's great news1
    Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!

    Stupidity should be painful.

  12. #42
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    So L blasted hunters on channel 5? This is great news!! Regardless of what idiots did it, L went on channel 5 news and made hunters and firearm owners look bad..... good for L. We need more people like L in the world... letting their coyote looking animals run off leash at will whenever they want, getting 30-40 yards ahead of them in the wilderness, then taking their anti-hunting stance to the news when their unleashed animal got blasted. Please thank L for all the good press. i no longer have any sympathy for L and hope that the authorities can find no wrong doing.

    This says it all from your friend...

    I also want to express that while I may not like hunting/shooting, I understand that the national forest is there for all of us to enjoy,
    unless of course I go on the nightly news and blast hunters for shooting my dog that was off leash but looks strikingly like a coyote... then give my professional, and I say professional because I am qualified to say what angles of fire and what distances and backstops or lack thereof are safe for hunting because I don't like it and all..... yet I provide zero pictures and distance mark offs to back my professional opinion but hey lets compare you shooting my horse out from under me to shooting a dog that looks like a coyote and is off leash with zero visible humans around in the wilderness.... that's the ticket

    Thankfully the hunters were not shooting across a road or waterway and within 1/4 mile of a home.... so unless L and J the anti-hunters lie, they will be charged with nothing...... which at this point after reading all of this anti-hunting rhetoric, I am hoping for.

    FYI I blast feral dogs regularly...... and i don't feel bad about it at all.... large dogs off leash in a wilderness area are fair game.

    Oh yeah....

    http://www.koaa.com/news/veterinaria...-dog-was-shot/

    "There were four dogs actually being walked by their owners, three of them had blaze orange vests on. The dog that was shot did not," Seraphin said.

    Still, Lisa says the hunters should have looked closer before pulling the trigger. She wants there to be stiffer penalties enforced for hunters who mistakenly shoot domestic animals.

    "This isn't anti-gun, it's not anti-hunting. This is about if you're going to be careless, you need to be punished for it," she said.

    Lisa and some friends have begun an email campaign to try and persuade lawmakers, but she admits she's still learning about what it takes to change the hunting regulations.

    So who was careless? the hunters who broke no laws or the person who had their large dog OFF A LEASH and broke no laws


    Maybe we need to change those laws too huh? let's start a campaign to fine and prosecute careless owners who let their dogs off leash in public areas...... regardless of where that may be.... so off property? On leash. PERIOD

    Your friends are the a-typical advocates after the fact type of people...... I have no support for their cause whatsoever.

  13. #43
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    So L blasted hunters on channel 5
    Before you waste a bunch of time on a rant, did you watch the clip? There was no "Blast" and no "Rant" by L. You need to LISTEN before you express opinion, Sir.

    Here is what she said:

    Still, Lisa says the hunters should have looked closer before pulling the trigger. She wants there to be stiffer penalties enforced for hunters who mistakenly shoot domestic animals.

    "This isn't anti-gun, it's not anti-hunting. This is about if you're going to be careless, you need to be punished for it," she said.
    Do you properly ID animals before you fire?

    Your diatribe is giving recreational shooter and hunters a bad name, Sir. it is totally unreasonable and vitriolic in my opinion. She never attacked hunting or shooting, she merely wanted better target ID. What is wrong with that? Post the entire clip, post all of the links, and let others judge for themselves.

    I will wait until the authorities form an EDUCATED FACT DRIVEN opinion before I further respond to your ignorant trash, Sir.


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  14. #44
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    So an e-mail campaign to change hunting laws is not a blast? So bringing it to the news is not a blast? They should change the leash laws in colorado so that when I am on the trail I don't have to deal with careless owners who let their large animals run freely 30-40 yards ahead of them on public trails..... seriously.

  15. #45
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Your diatribe is giving recreational shooter and hunters a bad name, Sir. it is totally unreasonable and vitriolic in my opinion. She never attacked hunting or shooting, she merely wanted better target ID. What is wrong with that? Post the entire clip, post all of the links, and let others judge for themselves.

    I will wait until the authorities form an EDUCATED FACT DRIVEN opinion before I further respond to your ignorant trash, Sir.

    FYI, I think it is careless to allow your animal to run off a leash, 30-40 yards over a hill out of your field of view in a public area.... how do we stop careless people like this? maybe an e-mail campaign to change the law?

    This isn't anti-dog or anti-dog owner, I just want careless people to be held accountable

    Dog survives hunting accident

    and for what it's worth, I would have shot it anyway and been well within my rights and well within the law..... as I saw a feral dog in the wilderness with no owner visible.

    I was totally onboard with them until they started blabbing to the news, demanding changes to the laws......

    The hunters were 50% to blame here.... the dog owner who let the dog run 30-40 yards away out of sight over a hill in a public area was 50% to blame..... the hunters owned up to their mistake and offered to pay what I feel is a fair share of their vet bills... and even though I feel the hunters were idiots for making a target mistake, the dog does look like a yote and I can see a novice making that mistake.

    Now what I see is instead of the owners admitting their fault in this, by not keeping the dog on a leash or at least keeping it close to them when off the leash ( 30-40 yards and OUT OF SIGHT is NOT close) they decide to go on a campaign to the legislature to change hunting laws..... bringing unnecessary negative attention to hunting as a whole.

    this society is full of blowhards who refuse to accept responsibility to the consequences of their own actions and want to blame everyone else.... all i see here is two novice hunters who made a mistake and owned up to it... even offering to pay for something that I feel they dont legally have an obligation to... and then of course your friends.... the media crusaders..... only crusading for half the solution to the problem that only existed because of both parties actions

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