I draw the line at Guns

This is a discussion on I draw the line at Guns within the Bob & Terry's Place forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Twice now I have gotten into relationship altering arguments over proper range safety. Though problems in each of these relationships existed before the range safety ...

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Thread: I draw the line at Guns

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    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    I draw the line at Guns

    Twice now I have gotten into relationship altering arguments over proper range safety. Though problems in each of these relationships existed before the range safety issues came up, it was the gun safety disagreements that were the final straw that broke this camel's back.

    I'll sum both incidents/relationships succinctly because there is no need for all the details.

    The first was almost a year ago with my ex-girlfriend. I had helped her select her first pistol and during a range trip she broke a cardinal safety rule and pointed the barrel of her unloaded gun directly at me on accident. This accident wasn't the biggest issue. The true issue was that the ensuing argument showed me that she was the type who even when completely in the wrong would never admit it and would fight tooth and nail to be right in the face of true logic. She couldn't make a mistake and take in constructive criticism. It wasn't the first time that she couldn't be wrong in an argument. It was just the final incident that let me know that there was no real going forward in a relationship where one party can never admit they're wrong.

    The first fight was the beginning of a breakup. The second incident is still fresh and in play but I have made up my mind on what to do.

    Yesterday I was supposed to go out to the country and shoot with my father. It was supposed to just be us going shooting until shortly before meeting he informed me that he would be bringing his girlfriend to go shooting with us.

    Some brief backstory on this woman must include that she has lived at his house for 3 years without having a job and has no assest or prospects to speak of. She is 100% dependent and enabled by my father. She is a serious alcoholic that gets blackout drunk on a regular basis. She can barely make it through cooking a meal without cutting herself on accident so lets just say that bumbling alcoholics and guns don't mix. She claims to have started going to AA meetings, but she is also the type of alcoholic who hides her drinking and feels the need to start the day with a drink to as she put it, "take the edge off the day." Even is she were to sober up she has so many other issues that she would still be considered "broken" by most people. My father and her are in a constant state of fighting, making up and absolute denial.

    I refused to go shooting with them because I feel that she is a serious range safety concern. I don't want to get shot by a clumsy alcoholic who shouldn't be around guns in the first place.

    My refusal to join them resulted in a blowout fight with my father in which I expressed my concerns about shooting with her as well as my general opinions about his and her relationship which I have expressed before. He continued his denial and would not acknowledge my conerns.

    I still want to have a relationship with my father but will not expose myself to their toxic relationship again. I will be around him but will excuse myself from any activity that involves her.

    So, even though problems existed before the gun safety issues arose, the lack of safety concerning guns is my final straw that I won't back down from and won't excuse.

    I don't think that I am being to stubborn, especially when it comes to safety issues conerning firearms.

    Thoughts?
    shadowwalker likes this.
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

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    Member Array virg's Avatar
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    you cant have a relationship with anyone if you're dead.....good job, with you sticking to your principles..

    virg

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    I think you should prob just avoid shooting with girlfriends and your father. Those relationships are important, going shooting with those people - not so much. Your concerns about gun safety are correct, but ruining a relationship becuase of gun safety is a little overboard to me, just avoid guns with these people. I think you do have a touch of stubborness, just my $0.02.
    The stupidity of some people NEVER ceases to amaze me.

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    You have to draw the line. I think you did the right thing.
    Rock and Glock likes this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Member Array 68blackbird's Avatar
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    I can relate. I was in a relationship with alcoholic woman, great gal..when she wasn't drunk, which was only about half the time. It is unfortunate that your father does not understand your concerns, or maybe he does understand, just the denial kicking in. The short of it, better to not put yourself in a dangerous position by going with them, than being harmed by going. Chances are you and pop will iron it out....at least if your both alive to do so.

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    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    An accident waiting to happen......IMO......do what you believe is right.

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    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Stubborn about gun safety? Sure! Good for you. And it IS possible that you were not at your diplomatic best in approaching the issues (no real evidence pointing this way - just thinking about how I stick my foot in it at times).

    But... it sure sounds like gun safety isn't the issue, but rather the indicator which points up deeper issues. As a teen, my wife had a large mole on her forehead. If some guy she was just getting to know made some remark about 'why don't you get that taken off?' she had him pretty well figured out as into appearance rather than character. The mole wasn't the big deal, and she has since had it removed, but it helped her to keep from going too far down the road with a shallow guy.

    Be thankful you have an indicator such as this to guide you! The girlfriend felt her need to be right and your dad felt his denial were more important than the safety issues. That speaks volumes about their stubbornness and selfishness. Dump the girlfriend (OK, you did already) and be cordial with your dad - maybe even spend time with the two in a non-gun environment - but you've been given the grace to see clearly where you (and reality) rank. This is uncomfortable (rejection IS a bummer), but it's living in the real world instead of living in a fantasy world. And that's a good thing.

    It's rough that Dad is making bad decisions. But he's a big boy and that's his lookout. But you saved yourself untold grief by ditching the girlfriend.

    Wishing you the best...
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller_man View Post
    I think you should prob just avoid shooting with girlfriends and your father. Those relationships are important, going shooting with those people - not so much. Your concerns about gun safety are correct, but ruining a relationship becuase of gun safety is a little overboard to me, just avoid guns with these people. I think you do have a touch of stubborness, just my $0.02.
    I agree. You are entitled to live your own life the way you want, but you have no right to expect someone else to live theirs according to your wishes.
    "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." ~ P. J. O'Rourke

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    It's very difficult, sometimes impossible, to save people from themselves. It's easy for you to save yourself from them. You did right. You father has issues if he puts up with her. Let him resolve them on his own. Stay out of his affairs and hope the tiff is a minor one.
    Eagleks likes this.
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    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller_man View Post
    I think you should prob just avoid shooting with girlfriends and your father. Those relationships are important, going shooting with those people - not so much. Your concerns about gun safety are correct, but ruining a relationship becuase of gun safety is a little overboard to me, just avoid guns with these people. I think you do have a touch of stubborness, just my $0.02.
    You are right about me being stubborn. But the relationships were already in a state of ruin, gun safety arguments were just what pushed them over the cliff.

    And Paymeister is correct, I was not at my diplomatic best during this last argument and gun safety isn't the grandest issue in each relationship. It just exacerbates problems that already exist and I won't tolerate unsafe behavior that denies reality.
    daddysgirl likes this.
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    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    You are right in avoiding any type of gathering that involves guns based on the attitudes and disabilities given. The hurt feelings can be overcome in other ways and not at a gun range.
    Eagleks likes this.
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    I draw the line at Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post

    Some brief backstory on this woman must include that she has lived at his house for 3 years without having a job and has no assest or prospects to speak of. She is 100% dependent and enabled by my father.
    This is irrelevant and shows that you are too busy judging people.


    She is a serious alcoholic that gets blackout drunk on a regular basis. She can barely make it through cooking a meal without cutting herself on accident so lets just say that bumbling alcoholics and guns don't mix. She claims to have started going to AA meetings, but she is also the type of alcoholic who hides her drinking and feels the need to start the day with a drink to as she put it, "take the edge off the day." Even is she were to sober up she has so many other issues that she would still be considered "broken" by most people. My father and her are in a constant state of fighting, making up and absolute denial.

    I refused to go shooting with them because I feel that she is a serious range safety concern. I don't want to get shot by a clumsy alcoholic who shouldn't be around guns in the first place.
    This is relevant, and a wise choice. But...


    My refusal to join them resulted in a blowout fight with my father in which I expressed my concerns about shooting with her as well as my general opinions about his and her relationship which I have expressed before. He continued his denial and would not acknowledge my conerns.
    Again with the judging... It's none of your business. You should not be telling your dad what you think of this chick or his relationship. The fact that you say he 'continued his denial' means your nose is WAAAAYYY too far into his business.

    You should have excused yourself gently, without going into detail why. If he presses and asks, you can gently express your concerns about her range safety awareness. If he's incapable of handling that discussion, he either won't ask, or you'll learn that you shouldn't shoot with him either.

    It is possible to distance yourself from unhealthy elements without escalating a problem. Learn to do that. It applies not just among family, but in self defense scenarios too.

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    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Actually it is my business. Her relationship with my father does impact me and yes I will be judgmental and call somebody out on a dependency issue.

    What you don't get is that for years we have tolerated their broken relationship and it does spill out onto us ruining family gatherings and holidays when an alcoholic rears her ugly head and he pretends like everything is normal.

    There's only so many times you can turn a blind eye to an alcoholic. I refuse to play along anymore and brining guns into the equation was it for me.
    TheConcealer likes this.
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

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    Senior Member Array Darrow75's Avatar
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    I think you did right in both instances. If the ex-girlfriend can't take constructive criticism on a subject as paramount as firearms safety, what does a day to day encounter with this woman look like?

    As for your father, sounds like classic co-dependency to me. As long as she is around and broken, he doesn't have to look in the mirror and think about fixing his own shortcomings, whether real or perceived. There isn't much you're going to be able to do about except avoid their toxic relationship as much as you can. Just let him know you'll be there for him if and when that relationship falls to pieces.

    When a co-dependent relationship breaks up there is a serious void for the"fixer" in the relationship that is really hard for them to deal with. I am speaking from experience here. Realizing that you don't have someone else's problems to deal with anymore and you have to take a serious look at your own problems is a tough pill to swallow.

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    Member Array FLArmadillo's Avatar
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    I will never knowingly put myself in a position to possibly get shot. So I wouldn't expect you to.

    With the relationship my father and I have, if something in his life is messed up and I feel it warrants addressing, I'll lay it all out for him; once, and only once. If he wants to talk about it later, I'm cool with that; he's a grown up, but I can't just let his life suck. If our relationship suffers because he can't fix his domestic issues, that's very unfortunate, but I'll never back down from something I believe to be true.

    And for the people who give you crap about judging people, of course you judge people, you're human, and that's what we do. If you don't judge people, you would be going shooting with your fathers intoxicated girlfriend, which would be...em...unwise. You would be blindly lending money to people who will never pay you back. You will end up hurting. Judge away.

    Maybe you are stubborn, but stubborn is the way to be about gun safety, seat belts, gas station seafood, etc.
    Darrow75 and rammerjammer like this.
    As we used to teach in the spook business, carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody - and he finds out about it - he may be very angry with you. -- Jeff Cooper

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