I don't understand suicide

This is a discussion on I don't understand suicide within the Bob & Terry's Place forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Each case is different so I can comment on the above, but... I had cancer when I was 19 and would never go through chemo ...

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 55

Thread: I don't understand suicide

  1. #31
    Member Array NC Buckeye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Huntersville, NC
    Posts
    401
    Each case is different so I can comment on the above, but...

    I had cancer when I was 19 and would never go through chemo again. not putting up a fight is sorta committing suicide right? Also I wouldn't want to go through life with a severely dehabilitating injury or mental degradation.

    I want my kids, family and friends to remember me fondly, not remember changing my diapers or forgetting their faces.

    My father is showing some VERY early signs of "old age" forgetting things, deafness, frailness, et cetera. If he is following the path of my grandmother I don't expect him to come back from a hunting trip at some point. I don't begrudge him at all.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #32
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    3,194
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I totally agree with QK that making your life useful is what gives it purpose and meaning. Taking action to make your life useful is a great deterrent to suicide. Unfortunately, the suicidal depressed person often can not see that choice or option as viable until something changes in their life circumstance, or they receive medical treatment for the depression, or both. So sadly, while QK is basically right, it isn't that simple.

    What everyone who is suicidal should know is that there are probably 20 different medicines on the market that can make dramatic improvements to their depression, and give the depressed person the ability to once again understand the wisdom QK provided,which the depressed person can not see due to their brain disorder.
    A lot of those meds increase suicidal thoughts as a side affect, ''not only in children''. I know personally people living with chronic depression and the meds can't make the thoughts disappear though may ease it some.

    Some of the thoughts suicidal people have are because they do not want to depend on meds to control their depression in the first place. Even with the meds it is a constant roller coaster of ups and downs.

    Not knocking what QK said but with chronic depression people are not able to feel the emotional lift of doing those things like ''normal'' people. The meds often dull the senses that may leave them with that empty feeling also.

    There is no magic bullet unfortunately.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

    NRA Member

  4. #33
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,736
    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    A lot of those meds increase suicidal thoughts as a side affect, ''not only in children''. I know personally people living with chronic depression and the meds can't make the thoughts disappear though may ease it some.
    More to the point is that often these 'anti-depressants' have no greater efficacy than placebos. This lack of performance, after the patient is hoping for relief, can lead to suicide.

    And the drugs get unfairly targeted, even if they are nothing more than placebos to begin with.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    3,194
    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    More to the point is that often these 'anti-depressants' have no greater efficacy than placebos. This lack of performance, after the patient is hoping for relief, can lead to suicide.

    And the drugs get unfairly targeted, even if they are nothing more than placebos to begin with.
    They often go through a battery of drugs looking for one that has the least side affects before they find one that helps at all. One could say the side affects of most of these drugs are hard to live with in their own right.

    Fortunately for some though the placebo affect is the crutch they need to conquer it themselves even if unknowingly.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

    NRA Member

  6. #35
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,658

    anti-depressants

    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    A lot of those meds increase suicidal thoughts as a side affect, ''not only in children''. I know personally people living with chronic depression and the meds can't make the thoughts disappear though may ease it some.

    Some of the thoughts suicidal people have are because they do not want to depend on meds to control their depression in the first place.
    No expert, so some of what I am saying is just speculation. Yes, it is true that some folks do not respond to medical treatment for depression. It is also very true that many people bent on suicide won't tell their doc of their intentions, thus denying themselves an opportunity to have the doc switch meds around and try combinations.

    I do a lot of volunteer work monitoring a web based help line. Teens especially find their way to help through the net. That's why I'm on line so frequently. I just flip browser tabs.

    As for people not wanting to take their meds for whatever reason, it is unfortunatley true that often the folks who need them the most are the most resistant to accepting treatment. It is absolutely amazing how some folks there can both beg for help and act very very rejecting and hostile at the same time. That's the nature of emotional disorders. E.g., I had a woman who would alternately promise me she would look into hospitalization, then send messages cursing me to the ends of the wold, then send messages begging forgiveness, then fire her shrink, then promise me she would seek hospitalization, and round and round we went.

  7. #36
    DC Founder
    Array Bumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    20,045
    I believe that it is, in many cases, a spontaneous, but very intense sense of hopelessness. We recently had a situation where a 78 year old man was fixing a toilet, his wife was washing dishes. Although he had never shown any indication that he was suicidal, she heard a gunshot and found him in the bathroom, with all of his tools out, and a gunshot in the head. Something just made him snap. I feel sorry for those left behind that see that scene and deal with the suicide's aftermath. Very grim situation....
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,618
    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    I can think of a thousand things that would make your life useful and meaningful and that will turn your life right around overnight.
    Like magic you'll have something to live for again and then better things will automatically come your way and good people will find you and befriend you.
    Life is a precious gift.
    Don't ever toss it away.
    A most excellent post. Hit the nail on the head, I think that you presented the solution to most people unhappiness. Barring mental illness there is no excuse for suicide. IMO, it is the most selfish thing a human being can do. When folks realize life is not all about themselves, self gratification, or what they can get attain and achieve for themselves but what they can give and contribute. Is when real happiness fullfilment and graditude becomes a part of our being and suicide is just not an option
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    2,375
    I believe some people get depressed and have no one to talk to.Other people cannot seem to get their lives together relation ship wise or job wise. maybe
    a chemical imbalance may be the cause. I think a lot of people in this situation could beat this with a little help and understanding. one place to start would be to put an end to bullying in school .Take time to be someones friend who is down.

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,108
    I have had direct experience with this subject, and there are never any easy answers; Back in 1983 my Grandfather (fathers side) took his own life with a gunshot to the head. I was the one who found him, and read the suicie note he left behind. It was the first time I ever saw my father cry, or become incapable of handling himself, as well as my mother who was comforting him. I had to answer questions for the police, everything. It happened only two weeks after my 21st birthday. Even though the suicide note was clear on why my grandfather decided to do this, it took my father years of therapy to come to grips with it.

    I was not unaffected by all of this, either. My therapy was to push life right to the edge. I partied, took insane risks to get rid of the pain. Eventually, it was not until I came face to face with the guy I was staring at in the mirror that it went away. What I had to deal with was the fact that I had felt I had been selfish and was somewhat responsible for what happened. The previous month my grandmother had passed away and my dad asked me if I would move in with grandpa and keep him company; I had refused, saying that I had just gotten my own place and did not want to lose the newfound freedom I had just gained. Hence, the self-blame, for not being there to prevent it. It took me 3 years to realize that once a person makes their mind up to do something like that short of locking them up and medicating them, you are not going to stop them from doing so.

    I did learn my lesson, though. When my other Grandad was left alone with my Grandma's passing, I did not hesitate; I moved in with him and he was able to live out the last 6 years of his life in his own home surrounded by family and people who kept him young until he finally passed away.

    Suicide is a hugely complicated issue; I feel lucky in that I was able to eventually understand the hows and whys. Even though my Grandad left a note, it still took me years to truly understand why he did it. At first, I was like many others who deemed him selfish; still others told me that he was going to burn in hell for committing a mortal sin. And others said he was not in his right mind and therefore could not have committed a sin. But I believe differently; life is about the choices we make. Those choices define the men and women we become, and how we are remembered. For the record:

    My grandfather knew exactly what he was doing.
    He had taken care of my ailing grandmother for the past 3 years prior, 24/7. He was advised by everyone she required care in a nursing home. He admantly refused, saying she deserved to pass on her own terms, in her own home with the people she loved.
    He felt he had fulfilled his obligations to his country, and his sons, who had families of thier own, and did not want to burden them with his care.
    But most importantly, he wanted to be with the love of his life, who he was married to for 53 years.

    I forgive him for doing what he did, and admire him for having taught me some valuable lessons in life, the most important of which (RKBA) has led me here....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,164
    My sister did it when she was 17...or maybe had just turned 18. I was about 13. Since then, I've responded to a number of attempts and successful suicides while working in EMS. Sometimes it's the hopless/I'm worthless thing. Sometimes it's guilt. Sometimes it's the physical quality of life. I've had enough older or otherwise very sick patients ask me to let them or even help them die to understand that sometimes, it's the physical pain and suffering that becomes unbearable. I've never had the desire to end my own life, but I can definitely think of scenarios where my death is the most acceptable solution (perhaps I should say, "least unacceptable"). Mostly in the name of saving loved ones or terminal/debilitating illness.

    Is suicide selfish? certainly it can be...but what is more selfish: For someone to want to end their suffering? Or for us to demand that they stay and suffer so we don't have to say goodbye yet?

    When my dad had cancer and asked me if I'd be PO'd if he quit fighting, I thought it would be selfish to ask him to suffer so I can watch him go out in prolonged agony.

    Certainly there are times where I think the person just needs to Man up and take it for the benefit of loved ones. Many will disagree with me on this, but there are also times when suicide is really not a terrible thing. At the end of the day, IMO, a persons choice is between them and whatever God they answer to.
    Spend few minutes learning about my journey from Zero to Athlete in this mini documentary!
    Then check out my blog! www.BodyByMcDonalds.com

    Cupcake - 100 pound loser, adventurer, Ironman Triathlete.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,179
    Sometimes they are under the influence of drugs or alcohol and the problems they have are compounded until they actually convince themselves everybody will be better off without them around,
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  13. #42
    Member Array Chris Dawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Central FL
    Posts
    394
    Sorry I didn't read the whole thread because I am really sensitive to the subject. I have had several people close to me take their own life including my sister.

    1. You will never understand it rationally because it is an unnatural or illogical act.
    2. You can bet that a large % of the people involved are so mired in depression they can't see anyway out.

    In the words of Roy Rodgers sensible people will stop digging when they find themselves in a hole (paraphrased).

    For me I found some measure of peace when I quit asking why and realized that I will never know. 25 years later I still have mixed emotions and miss the adult relationship that could have been with my sister.

    Chris

  14. #43
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fayetteville, AR
    Posts
    13,687
    Quote Originally Posted by pcon View Post
    I don't get how someone could take their own life. I'm a fairly young fellow, I'm only 26. I get that life can be hard. I understand depression, lonliness, pain. I've never really been exposed to suicide and yet within the past month and a half, I've had two friends from high school (who I was very close to then) kill themselves. Both are from the same town, both had young children.

    How can a man just leave his child(ren) stranded like that?

    If you pray, don't pray for me...pray for their families. One guy had 2 little girls, the other had a 6 month old son. These kids are going to have to deal with knowing what their fathers have done.

    I just can't comprehend it...
    Sorry to hear this. Those families will be in my prayers. Suicide is a selfish act and used by those who feel their options have run out, or blaming themselves for situations that they think they created and should be ultimately punished for. It hurts those who are left behind the most, and it shows others that their value of life has diminished beyond repair. Most of us cannot comprehend it, and there's good reasons why we shouldn't even attempt to. Personally, I would describe it as an easy way out of life for those who want to quit. Realize that in other parts of the world and for some religious factions and activists.....suicide means giving your all to the cause and sitting next to Allah and the virgins and all of that and looked upon as a powerful act and ultimate test of faith and duty. Collective (mass) suicides when done intentionally and with will are looked upon as very powerful by some. I figure the soul of a person who would take themselves out of this world unnaturally will never be at peace nor advance to the next stage whatever that may be....just vanquished. For that alone we might feel sorrow in knowing that their souls will never again be amongst us wherever we may go. In their selfish act they have disconnected themselves from the collective no matter what memories remain. They cannot be redeemed by any means but for the purpose of universal balance, another soul may be created in it's wake.

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    3,194
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    No expert, so some of what I am saying is just speculation. Yes, it is true that some folks do not respond to medical treatment for depression. It is also very true that many people bent on suicide won't tell their doc of their intentions, thus denying themselves an opportunity to have the doc switch meds around and try combinations.

    I do a lot of volunteer work monitoring a web based help line. Teens especially find their way to help through the net. That's why I'm on line so frequently. I just flip browser tabs.

    As for people not wanting to take their meds for whatever reason, it is unfortunatley true that often the folks who need them the most are the most resistant to accepting treatment. It is absolutely amazing how some folks there can both beg for help and act very very rejecting and hostile at the same time. That's the nature of emotional disorders. E.g., I had a woman who would alternately promise me she would look into hospitalization, then send messages cursing me to the ends of the wold, then send messages begging forgiveness, then fire her shrink, then promise me she would seek hospitalization, and round and round we went.
    Yes it's an amazing paradox, it's the illness they want cured and the illness that wont let them accept the help they need.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

    NRA Member

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    668
    larefugee:
    People choose to kill themselves when the amount of pain in their lives exceeds their ability to cope with it.
    Right in one.
    There are lots of underlying reasons. But coping with physical or mental pain, or the lack of that ability, is what it all boils down to.

    Self Defense:
    Suicide is one of the most selfish acts imaginable. My mother commtted suicide a few months after a stroke. My entire family wanted to help her but she did not want to be a burden. She was always self sufficient and could not stand the idea of being dependent. Yes, she was of diminished capacity but I didn't love her any less.

    Personally, I want every means to keep me alive. Tubes, machines, drugs, anything and everything. This dying with dignity crap is nonsense. There is no dignity in dying without doing everything possible to stay alive.
    Dying with dignity may be crap to you, but it may be exactly what someone else needs. If you want to scratch and claw your way to your grave, you have every right to do so. Others may vehemently disagree, and be just as right, and just as rational as you. Your mother, R.I.P., made a choice you didn't like. But it was still her choice to make.

    Longrider:
    Barring mental illness there is no excuse for suicide.
    Oh, my. Hmmm. The best thing I can say here is thank you for telling everyone on the other side of the issue that there is no excuse for their choice to end their pain. Such wisdom. I thank you.

    Cupcake:
    Is suicide selfish? certainly it can be...but what is more selfish: For someone to want to end their suffering? Or for us to demand that they stay and suffer so we don't have to say goodbye yet?

    When my dad had cancer and asked me if I'd be PO'd if he quit fighting, I thought it would be selfish to ask him to suffer so I can watch him go out in prolonged agony.
    Yes.
    My father-in-law didn't commit suicide, but he was dying, and he chose hospice rather than to keep fighting. My ex-husband wanted him to keep fighting, but Sam had fought long enough, and it was a battle he knew he was losing. When life no longer held anything for him worth fighting for (and soon losing), he let go. My mother-in-law is still grateful for the emotional support I gave them both on his decision.

    Ramrod:
    I figure the soul of a person who would take themselves out of this world unnaturally will never be at peace nor advance to the next stage whatever that may be....just vanquished. For that alone we might feel sorrow in knowing that their souls will never again be amongst us wherever we may go. In their selfish act they have disconnected themselves from the collective no matter what memories remain. They cannot be redeemed by any means but for the purpose of universal balance, another soul may be created in it's wake.
    My opinion is most of the people who choose suicide don't believe in souls, in next stages, in universal balance, or in going somewhere else.

    I lost my beautiful niece to suicide when she was 24. She had so much going for her! But she had a massive case of depression that no one but her parents knew about. When she had herself admitted to a psychiatric hospital, her mother went up and got her out! A year later she was dead.

    Do I wish I could have reached her? Of course. Do I wish she could have found a miracle medicine? Of course. Do I wish I could b*-slap my sister-in-law for removing her from the hospital when her own daughter knew she needed to be there? Of course.

    But it is still a decision no one can make for anyone else.
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. I don't understand this...
    By Pro2A in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: March 9th, 2009, 08:34 AM
  2. Please help to understand.
    By Mikey in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: November 19th, 2008, 09:27 PM
  3. Please help me understand
    By 9 Micky Mouse in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: October 23rd, 2008, 05:15 PM
  4. Now I understand
    By SleepingZ in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: October 24th, 2007, 02:56 PM
  5. Those that just don't understand...
    By garn in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: February 16th, 2007, 09:10 AM

Search tags for this page

hard to understand suicide

,

i just dont understand suicide

,

trying to understand suicide

Click on a term to search for related topics.