Mugging at gas station ATM

This is a discussion on Mugging at gas station ATM within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A friend of mine was out and about the other night with one of his buddies. They stopped at a gas station with an ATM ...

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Thread: Mugging at gas station ATM

  1. #1
    Member Array andyw328's Avatar
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    Mugging at gas station ATM

    A friend of mine was out and about the other night with one of his buddies. They stopped at a gas station with an ATM outside (I didn't know they put ATM's outside gas stations??), and my friend went to withdraw some money while his associate went in to grab some chips or something. While he is pulling out his cash, BG runs up on him from the darkness, shoves a pistol up against his chest, barrel right under his chin, demands he give him the money and withdraw more. Lucky for my friend, while he was messin around pressin buttons on the ATM, his buddy came outside, got the jump on BG and knocked him out with a strike to the back of the head. They called the police, and everything ended up alright.

    I think to myself, what if that was me, and I was by myself? Granted, I do not use ATMs or banks, but it's still a plausible risk. That man might very well have shot my friend if his friend hadn't come to his aid/successfully got the drop on BG.

    What do you all think is the best response if someone catches you slipping (keyword slipping, let's assume SA has failed), and has a pistol physically pressed against your body? I like to imagine I could step back a little and talk to him while I reached for my weapon, but when it's real life and not a hypothetical, I am not so sure of myself.

    I try to practice drawing from concealed, and drawing while looking nonthreatening (in a mirror... kinda sad huh?). Does anyone else practice for this sort of scenario?

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  3. #2
    Ox
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    Very lucky of the other guy to be there or it could have ended bad.

    We all practice, it is normal.
    Good story, good outcome.
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    Member Array hothoog's Avatar
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    I wonder what he hit the badguy with to knock him out?

    As far as the "seceret" draw, seems like a good idea but how can you hide that with a gun in your chest? I can see pretending like you are going for a wallet but the victim already had his ATM card out. Hmmm, seems dangerous.

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    Member Array djz87's Avatar
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    Hes lucky the BG didn't pull the trigger as he was impacted. Could have ended up alot worse than it did. Glad hes alright.

    Personally, i hate using ATM's at night, and will only do so in extreme emergency situations. Otherwise, I'm going to find an ATM indoors, or borrow from a friend or family member.
    You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is 'never try'. -Homer Simpson

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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    It's damn near impossible to out draw a gun that is already pressed against your body.

    Comply, then watch for an opening.

    If you do fight, make it crystal clear to the bad guy that he has made a major mistake. There is no such thing as a fair fight for your life.

    Situational awareness is key to staying out of this kind of situation.

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    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djz87 View Post
    Hes lucky the BG didn't pull the trigger as he was impacted. Could have ended up alot worse than it did. Glad hes alright.

    Personally, i hate using ATM's at night, and will only do so in extreme emergency situations. Otherwise, I'm going to find an ATM indoors, or borrow from a friend or family member.
    Daylight does not make you completelly safe. A woman I knew was killed in Columbia, SC in January 2009 around 8:30 in the morning at a drive-thru ATM. It was a very busy bank with other people in line who witnessed the whole thing. Always keep your SA up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andyw328 View Post
    What do you all think is the best response if someone catches you slipping (keyword slipping, let's assume SA has failed), and has a pistol physically pressed against your body? I like to imagine I could step back a little and talk to him while I reached for my weapon, but when it's real life and not a hypothetical, I am not so sure of myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye
    It's damn near impossible to out draw a gun that is already pressed against your body.

    Comply, then watch for an opening.
    Bullseye, that is so Not True.

    In response to the original post... Here's the deal... If you are not sure of yourself, Don't try it!

    Most of the usual ccw permit holders do not train for, or have training in handgun retention and disarming techniques. I train regularly on handgun disarming and weapon retention, but I'm also a former LEO trainer for those techniques using the Jim Lindell method of weapon retention and disarming techniques.

    It is not particularly difficult to disarm an assailant when they are at contact range with a gun pressed against your body. Even at a distance of 2 or 3 feet away. However, it is nothing to play around with. I can not stress that point enough.

    You need to follow proven techniques to trap, control and or leverage their weapon to gain control of it. You need to understand how leverage works in your mind, and you need to practice these techniques until it is second nature and built into your muscle memory. If you are not well skilled at it, you're likely to end up making a fatal mistake.

    Making a half assed attempt at it while trying to simultaneously draw your own gun is a move which would likely get you shot or killed. You need to commit to the disarm and use both hands. Do not try to perform two totally different skill sets or actions at the same time.

    There are also big differences between redirecting the muzzle of the assailants weapon while drawing your own and firing... and disarming the assailant. You have to know which technique you are going to perform and which technique is going to be the appropriate response. You can not do that without formal training and a lot of practice.

    Then there's probably the most important component of all. You have to have the guts to act! Again, a half assed attempt and any hesitation based on your very real and acute level of fear is what will get you killed.

    I've said before, a genuine, combat, aggressive mindset does have a tangible effect on the outcome. If you are not absolutely convinced in your heart, your mind, and your soul that you will be the victor, you will be the winner, you will survive any and all comers, you are likely to come up short. Another thing is that you have a deep understanding that there are no guarantees in life. Even with the combat, survivor mindset, years of training, professional instruction, you have to accept the fact, that you may still lose the fight.

    It's understanding that, and being willing to fight on to overcome your fear is what's gonna determine the outcome.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Senior Member Array jhh3rd's Avatar
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    Give up the cash and live to fight another day. Hard to draw against the drop. Clutch chest and feign a heart attack. Drop the money to distract. You got a lot to do in a short amount of time when your gun is not in your hand.

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    Member Array andyw328's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Bullseye, that is so Not True.

    In response to the original post... Here's the deal... If you are not sure of yourself, Don't try it!

    Most of the usual ccw permit holders do not train for, or have training in handgun retention and disarming techniques. I train regularly on handgun disarming and weapon retention, but I'm also a former LEO trainer for those techniques using the Jim Lindell method of weapon retention and disarming techniques.

    It is not particularly difficult to disarm an assailant when they are at contact range with a gun pressed against your body. Even at a distance of 2 or 3 feet away. However, it is nothing to play around with. I can not stress that point enough.

    You need to follow proven techniques to trap, control and or leverage their weapon to gain control of it. You need to understand how leverage works in your mind, and you need to practice these techniques until it is second nature and built into your muscle memory. If you are not well skilled at it, you're likely to end up making a fatal mistake.

    Making a half assed attempt at it while trying to simultaneously draw your own gun is a move which would likely get you shot or killed. You need to commit to the disarm and use both hands. Do not try to perform two totally different skill sets or actions at the same time.

    There are also big differences between redirecting the muzzle of the assailants weapon while drawing your own and firing... and disarming the assailant. You have to know which technique you are going to perform and which technique is going to be the appropriate response. You can not do that without formal training and a lot of practice.

    Then there's probably the most important component of all. You have to have the guts to act! Again, a half assed attempt and any hesitation based on your very real and acute level of fear is what will get you killed.

    I've said before, a genuine, combat, aggressive mindset does have a tangible effect on the outcome. If you are not absolutely convinced in your heart, your mind, and your soul that you will be the victor, you will be the winner, you will survive any and all comers, you are likely to come up short. Another thing is that you have a deep understanding that there are no guarantees in life. Even with the combat, survivor mindset, years of training, professional instruction, you have to accept the fact, that you may still lose the fight.

    It's understanding that, and being willing to fight on to overcome your fear is what's gonna determine the outcome.

    Where do you think one might be able to find training on CQC disarm techniques? I.e. I'm in MI, where might be a good place to look?

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array PastorPack's Avatar
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    My wife and I found a great solution to this. Go to a grocery store, buy a pack of gum and get cash back. You're in a lit store with cashier, and not such a target.
    God is love (1 John 4:8)

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyw328
    Where do you think one might be able to find training on CQC disarm techniques? I.e. I'm in MI, where might be a good place to look?
    Some individual law enforcement trainers will give training to the public, but they scrutinize who they give this type of training to. A lot of the big schools like Thunder Ranch, Lethal Force Institute, Chuck Taylor, Gunsite and the like will get into handgun retention and disarming techniques in their Advance Pistol Courses.

    These are advance gun handling skills and you must be able to show a proficiency of basic gun handling before you get into advance skills. You must learn to walk before you can run kind of thing.

    Since Jim Lindell is considered to be the grandfather of handgun and long gun weapon retention and disarming, a lot of these schools teach his method. I know Ayoob is one of Jim's National Trainers as well as many others. Lindell founded the National Law Enforcement Training Center which is where I received my instruction and instructor certifications however, I have never been a sworn police officer. I just happened to know the right people who got me started I am also no longer currently "certified" as an instructor however I still train regularly and share some of that experience with shooting friends and family.

    Get involved in competition shooting and IDPA and you'll be able to acquaint yourself with those who can steer you in the right direction.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Senior Member Array Snowman23's Avatar
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    Glad the gun didn't go off when BG was hit on the head.

    What I found strange is that an ATM is outside the gas station. I saw a identity theft story on the news one evening about BG's dropping fake ATM machines in strategic locations. Most clerks or employees would not question an ATM. These fake ATM's will generally fail to dispense cash and just log your PIN and Card info. Sounds like this one did give him some cash...but still strange that it's outside.

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    Ex Member Array maddyfish's Avatar
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    I think this might be a case where my "throwdown" money comes into use.

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    Why did his buddy hit him on the head...he should have put a bullet into his brain...no drain to taxpayers.IMHO

    As Uncle Ted says, "No repeat offenders, just dead offenders."
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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhh3rd View Post
    Give up the cash and live to fight another day. Hard to draw against the drop. Clutch chest and feign a heart attack. Drop the money to distract. You got a lot to do in a short amount of time when your gun is not in your hand.
    Taken completly by suprise there's not much else to do. Bark'n's advice was spot on.....unless your 100% into the moment and ready to act on your training then give up the money and hopefully continue breathing.

    I practice drawing and am confident in that ability. Under duress with a gun to my head is something else.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

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