This robbery actually happened, scenario time

This is a discussion on This robbery actually happened, scenario time within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The following is a copy from one of my local news agencies. ADAMS COUNTY, Colo. -- Three masked gunman fired shots during a robbery attempt ...

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Thread: This robbery actually happened, scenario time

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    This robbery actually happened, scenario time

    The following is a copy from one of my local news agencies.

    ADAMS COUNTY, Colo. -- Three masked gunman fired shots during a robbery attempt at a crowded Adams County store Tuesday evening.

    During Tuesday's big snow storm, the robbery attempt occurred about 6:25 p.m. at the Plaza Latina store, 7043 Pecos St., said Adams County sheriff's spokesperson Sgt. Candi Baker.

    Three men, armed with handguns and a shotgun, entered the store and immediately began shooting, frightening 15 employees and five customers inside, Baker said. No injuries were reported.

    Saying nothing, the gunman began shattering showcases containing jewelry, said store owner Maria Ly, who was not at the shop during the robbery.

    "People inside the store were screaming," Ly told TheDenverChannel.com.

    Employees believe all the shouting scared off the would-be robbers, who left empty-handed, Ly said. After fleeing the shop, the men briefly returned and fired more shots.

    How would you react when the first shots were fired? If you did nothing, how about when they came back in?

    Let's not comment on the stupidity of the BGs or speculate on the motives. Just put yourself in the position of one of the shoppers when this happens.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Member Array Jblack44's Avatar
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    Well after crapping my pants when the first shot went off, I would be seaking cover! Then drawing my weapon and preparing to protect my life if any muzzle aproached my direction.

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    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    duck and cover.... when its safe... change my shorts.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

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    As always, too many variables, depending on situation.

    But... If I have a clear shot, I'm dropping BG's. If there was any hesitation, it was eliminated when they started shooting.

    It's not reasonable to play arm-chair quarterback and say, "well, nobody was hurt". This outcome was highly unlikely, and I believe most judges would agree that it was a reasonable assumption that both mine and other lives were in imminent danger.
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    Senior Member Array DIABLO9489's Avatar
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    Immediately regret not bringing a bigger gun and more ammo
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    Bad odds me armed with a concealed carry gun vs three armed men (one with a shotgun)?

    If all they want is jewelry let 'em have it !

    If they start shooting witnesses, it's hard to say because of the variables.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    Member Array FLSquirrelHunter's Avatar
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    I'm customer? seek cover, draw, exit asap, find a new place to shop.

    I'm worker: seek cover, draw, return fire, then find a new job.

    This really doesn't sound like a robbery ... more like gang extortion.

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    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Seek cover, draw, find my next place to seek cover, evaluate options, fire if prudent, move to next cover, reevaluate situation, repeat.
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    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    Find a safe corner, draw, and hold my ground. If one of the comes in my field of view, I'm taking the shot if I think it's safe to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    Bad odds me armed with a concealed carry gun vs three armed men (one with a shotgun)?
    I wouldn't worry about being TOO outgunned... These guys ran off because people were shouting... I can guarantee bullets being sent their way will make the vanish pretty quick.

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    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    I don't think I'd do anything. After all "shouting" made them leave. How serious could they be?

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    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Serious enough to walk into a building full of innocents and start shooting. Whether they shot at people or not is irrelevant. The fact is they came in and started discharging deadly weapons. Sure they might have turned out to be skittish, but do you know that to begin with? No. The only information you have when they come in is that there's three of them, they have guns and are shooting.
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    Member Array automan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    Bad odds me armed with a concealed carry gun vs three armed men (one with a shotgun)?

    If all they want is jewelry let 'em have it !

    If they start shooting witnesses, it's hard to say because of the variables.
    My thoughts too, except if they started shooting witnesses they'd force my hand to act.

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    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    As usual, there are alot of dynamic variables to be taken into consideration. Should you automatically shoot an armed robber on first sight? Again, see the variables problem, that's dependent on the circumstances. Chances are you should not, until you have time to assess the situation and if you can, find cover/concealment.

    3 guys armed with a shotgun and handguns, thats alot of firepower vs the average guy carrying a gun.

    Standing right out in the open and firing into them is going to get you killed in quick order. A certain level of tactics, or some strategy, MUST be used vs multiple attackers.

    IMO if they were clearly just shooting into the ceiling (which I assume is what they did, but the article didn't clarify), and kicking in display cases to grab goods, I wouldn't use lethal force just yet. If they started putting the gun in peoples faces and changing it from an aggressive robbery to a possible lethal force encounter, then I would intervene as best I could.

    As someone said earlier, fear of imminent death or serious injury could be easily OK'ed by just about any judge, once 3 armed robbers come into a building shooting. For me I would try and assess as much as possible before I took another persons life.

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    Senior Member Array CowboyColby's Avatar
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    In my opinion after they came in the first time I would seek immediate cover, draw my weapon and asses the situation. They leave I would be on the phone with 911. They re-enter, I relay this to the 911 operator, hear shots, shoot the closest one to me or the one I feel is the biggest threat, probably the guy with the shotty, assess situation, if they have not ran out again continue shooting till threat is ceased.

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    Am I missing something here? Many of you state that as customers, you would only seek cover and observe until you were threatened or someone else was threatened....I believe in following AOJ..

    A - Ability - means that the other person(s) have the power to kill or cripple you.
    O - Opportunity - means that the circumstances are such that the other person would be able to use his (their) ability against you.
    J - Jeopardy - means that the other person's actions or words provide you with a reasonably perceived belief that he (they) intend to kill or cripple you.

    It would seem that within the first seconds of these individuals entering the store, discharging their weapons, that AOJ has been met many times over. To say you would seek cover and observe until they looked at you, IMO, is absolutely the wrong thing to do. To state that there are many variables and you would have to do further assessment - you are kidding I know! The time for assessing the situation occurs when those shots are fired, NOT after the shots are fired. Your life and the lives of others are in serious JEOPARDY. I don't care if they were clearly shooting into the ceiling. What difference does that make? By the time they are putting their guns in the faces of others, it is toooooo late. If you have chosen to carry a weapon for self defense, then your mindset needs to be of such that you can recognize AOJ (immediately in this scenario) and react as if YOUR life depended on it, because it does! Your hand should have been forced to act when the first shots were fired, NOT while observing if they were only going to take the jewelery. If you are serious about carrying, and have taken the time to train for the worse, then at this moment you are staring at the Grim Reaper and it's time to call his bluff. Of course people are going to be screaming and shouting. Is that all YOU are going to do, along with finding a safe corner, in hopes of seeing them run away? I'm not a proponent of indiscriminately firing my weapon, but the stage was set from the beginning.

    BG's enter, fire weapons (regardless of the direction), AOJ met, draw weapon, GET OFF THE X, and engage. If I am going to die, it will be of a time and place of MY choosing and not three or four knuckleheads that consider themselves the "James Gang". If your mindset is such that you wait for the snake to strike, then it could be too late for the antivenom.

    Remember Jeff Cooper's Principles of Personal Defense:

    Alertness
    Decisiveness
    Aggressiveness
    Speed
    Coolness
    Ruthlessness
    Surprise

    Many of your responses have just totally blown my mind..Sorry...JMO...sorry for the rant!
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

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