Self-defense for the disabled

This is a discussion on Self-defense for the disabled within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If someone is considered 100% disabled because of back surgeries have to wait untill they are physically attacked before they can draw and shoot someone ...

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Thread: Self-defense for the disabled

  1. #1
    Member Array goodlife's Avatar
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    Self-defense for the disabled

    If someone is considered 100% disabled because of back surgeries have to wait untill they are physically attacked before they can draw and shoot someone who is unarmed who is threatening them?
    Does being physically disabled change how someone could use a gun in self-defense?

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Look for discussions on disparity of force.

    Just remember, no matter what your disability, you will have to have that articulated in court so that a jury believes that you were justified in your fear of loss of life or serious bodily injury.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlife View Post
    If someone is considered 100% disabled because of back surgeries have to wait untill they are physically attacked before they can draw and shoot someone who is unarmed who is threatening them?
    Does being physically disabled change how someone could use a gun in self-defense?
    This is a 'loaded' question. I'm not disabled, but I'm in my 60's and I will not let someone attack me, without me giving a verbal warning and some additional action on my part. If they are armed or unarmed is not something I may find out until it's too late.
    Some dirtbag's actions prior to showing a weapon may be enough for the use of some kind of defensive force.
    The key here is being alert to one's surroundings and planning ahead.
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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    There are many dynamics that could factor in for your question so it is impossible to give you the answer you desire. Like NC BULLSEYE stated, disparity of force is a good place to start and then build your scenario from there.

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    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    Think about speaking with an attorney. One who specializes in using force for self defense.

    I'm a big fan of prevention. It's better to know something before it happens, than finding out after.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

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    You are speaking of the legal theory called "Disparity of Force."

    In order to be justified to use lethal force to defend against an attack, you must be in immediate and otherwise unavoidable fear of death or crippling injury.

    The three components which comprise a reasonable person to believe they are in immediate and otherwise unavoidable fear of death or crippling injury is if your attacker has the ability to kill or cripple you. The attacker must have the opportunity to kill or cripple you. And finally, the attacker must have placed you in jeopardy of being killed or crippled by using threats and or deeds which makes one believe they are serious about harming or killing you.

    So, all things being essentially equal. You are of equal size, build, strength as your attacker... You have to be threatened by someone who can not only kill you, but also has the opportunity to kill you and intend to kill or cripple you. So usually you can not employ deadly force unless deadly force is being used against you. That is why you are usually in deep doo doo for shooting an unarmed attacker.

    However, there are mitigating factors or circumstances which would allow the defender to use lethal force to defend themself where ordinarily they would not be. One of those mitigating factors is where there is a "disparity of force."

    Which loosely means, the force was unequal, so to speak. A disparity, if you will.

    Some examples of disparity of force issues would be "Force of numbers." In that case, while your attackers may be "unarmed," there is a mob of bad guys who are threatening you using the force of the entire group. Five against one otherwise healthy individual would stomp that person into the ground and easily kill or cripple that person, therefore, it can be excused if the lone defender employs lethal force to defend himself against a "group" of unarmed individuals.

    It is important to know and understand that the three components of them having ability, opportunity and placing you in jeopardy by their deeds and actions still has to exist.

    Another example would be getting into a fight with an unarmed attacker because you bumped into him causing him to spill his beer and he hits you. You are both pretty much of equal size, stature, weight and physical capability and under normal circumstances you would not be on solid ground to use lethal force in defending yourself. Now say the guy knocks you down on the ground and once down on the ground, instead of walking away he starts to kick you and stomp on you with his boots. He's kicking you in the head and stomping on your body causing internal injuries. Here is a situation where while it started out a situation where lethal force is not justified, it has now moved into a situation where there clearly is a disparity of force. You are now down on the ground, unable to escape and not being on your feet and able to move, you can no long absorb the blows coming to your head and body. You may now be justified to use lethal force to end the fight, where before, you may have been guilty of manslaughter.

    That example is a very complex one and a lot of people are going to disagree. A lot of people are going to say, I could be killed by a single punch to the face therefore, I'm going to shoot anyone who tries to punch me in the face, whether they have a weapon or not. Fine, it's your life, go ahead and blast them. I'm not going to take any bets one way or another whether that person doesn't go to prison or not.

    It is generally accepted in society that women are the weaker sex of the two sexes and a lone woman against a single unarmed man can be considered a disparity of force and can justifiably use lethal force against a lone unarmed male opponent. However, there have been cases where the woman has been charged.

    Another case where there is a disparity of force can come into play is if the person being attacked has a physical disability. For example, say you are an otherwise normal healthy male on par with your opponent, however you have just had knee surgery and are using crutches, a cane or wheel chair for mobility. You can not be expected to perform the same way to defend yourself against an attack as you would be were you before the injury.

    The good thing is that your physical disability does not need to be visually obvious to the bad guy. However, your physical disability had better be well documented by your physician, surgeon, or whoever which can attest that you were in such a frail condition that any slight blow would permanently cripple you.

    I hope this helps explain some things without confusing you further.

    Look into "disparity of force" cases and defense and speak with your attorney if you have a physical disability where you think you may have to employ lethal force against unarmed attackers.

    Once again, you have to clearly show that the average person with the same disability as you, would reasonably be in fear of your life or being crippled in the same situation. "The reasonable man theory." And again, you have to show that not only did the attacker have means (ability) to kill you, he had to have the opportunity and performing threats or actions to have placed you in jeopardy as well.
    -Bark'n
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    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    This is a 'loaded' question. I'm not disabled, but I'm in my 60's and I will not let someone attack me, without me giving a verbal warning and some additional action on my part. If they are armed or unarmed is not something I may find out until it's too late.
    Some dirtbag's actions prior to showing a weapon may be enough for the use of some kind of defensive force.
    The key here is being alert to one's surroundings and planning ahead.
    Winner Winner chicken dinner.

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    What will work for retsupt99 probably won't work for someone who is age 35 or 40.

    I'm just sayin...
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Member Array monk's Avatar
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    Bark'n.... That was clear as a bell.... Best I've ever had it explained to me.... Thanks
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    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    What will work for retsupt99 probably won't work for someone who is age 35 or 40.

    I'm just sayin...
    And I don't disagree. But since I am closer to 60 than 40 I'm in complete agreement. I'm not getting my a$$ kicked by anyone.

    The way it was explained in my CCW class many moons ago. "If you believe that you are in a position of grave bodily harm or death you are justified to shoot". The "believe" is to be underlined.

    My instructor was the chief investigator for the state attorney general's office, so I believe his information to be good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    And I don't disagree. But since I am closer to 60 than 40 I'm in complete agreement. I'm not getting my a$$ kicked by anyone.

    The way it was explained in my CCW class many moons ago. "If you believe that you are in a position of grave bodily harm or death you are justified to shoot". The "believe" is to be underlined.

    My instructor was the chief investigator for the state attorney general's office, so I believe his information to be good.
    I believe you are probably correct!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Member Array Censored's Avatar
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    I'm on the back side of 65, bad knees (can't run), and have had multiple surgeries for a detached retina. My opthamologist has told me to avoid any trauma to the head in order avoid losing sight in that eye. I won't take a beating.
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    Member Array Ksthumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I'm not disabled, but I'm in my 60's and I will not let someone attack me, without me giving a verbal warning and some additional action on my part. If they are armed or unarmed is not something I may find out until it's too late.
    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    And I don't disagree. But since I am closer to 60 than 40 I'm in complete agreement. I'm not getting my a$$ kicked by anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    I won't take a beating.
    Some young thug may view an older citizen as an easy target but we did not arrive at this age by being stupid.

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    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    And I don't disagree. But since I am closer to 60 than 40 I'm in complete agreement. I'm not getting my a$$ kicked by anyone.

    The way it was explained in my CCW class many moons ago. "If you believe that you are in a position of grave bodily harm or death you are justified to shoot". The "believe" is to be underlined.

    My instructor was the chief investigator for the state attorney general's office, so I believe his information to be good.
    Well technically, usually it "a normal person believes". In other words if your super parinoid,and think that anyone that sneezes on you is going to infect you with a deadly virus, than a you can't shoot the first person that sneezes on the bus. a "normal" person would not think you were in grave danger.

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    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    Well technically, usually it "a normal person believes". In other words if your super parinoid,and think that anyone that sneezes on you is going to infect you with a deadly virus, than a you can't shoot the first person that sneezes on the bus. a "normal" person would not think you were in grave danger.
    Ted no offense but I have no idea what your point is. Maybe a re-post is in order?

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