A responsibility to preserve life - Page 3

A responsibility to preserve life

This is a discussion on A responsibility to preserve life within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by glockman10mm I just wanted to get this off my chest. Many of us carry weapons on a daily basis either in the ...

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Thread: A responsibility to preserve life

  1. #31
    Member Array dgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I just wanted to get this off my chest. Many of us carry weapons on a daily basis either in the line of duty, or for personal protection. I feel very strongly that we who have the instrument of causing death should also go one step further and carry a less than lethal option such as a good water based pepper spray. I believe that while many self defense shootings are justified, there are many of those that could have been handled early on with a good dose of oleo capsium spray to the eyes. This is especially good for a situation where you make a choice to intervene on someone elses behalf and a self defense situation occurs that is not immediate life threatening. I am not trying to tell anyone what to do, but I would like to see the ccw community become more aware of the benifits to commiting to a non lethal alternative and committing that in addition to their deadly force answer. You can't take back the shot, but you can decomtaminate someone hit with pepper, if you have the option availible


    I dont carry to protect others. Its for my family and myself. if others choose to be helpless victims, thats their choice.
    I will never get involved in someone elses fight using my firearm in any way. I will be a witness and provide leo with a detailed statement. As for as non leathal options, Im not going to carry options. I dont have nor want to have all kinds of stuff hanging on my belt or filling my pockets.
    I carry a concealed firearm and if someone threatens me or my family to the point where it gets physical, and i cant fight off the attack hand to hand then its to bad for the attacker. He just made a grave mistake. Im sure others feel different and may choose to carry non leathel devices and thats their choice.
    I do not wish to ever have to use my gun. It will be a life changing event that cant be undone. Major legal and financial issues, possible guilt or regret. But that is the responsability of carrying a firearm. If its to much, dont carry a leathal weapon.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    ... There is a difference between self defense and killing. While the latter may be justified, it is not always necessary. It is easy to say I would do this or that, but until you have pulled that trigger, and have lived with the emotional turmoil and scrutiny from others that follows, then you are speaking from nothing but ideaology. And then it could cost you and your family everything financially. I say if you have to use deadly force, then do what you have to do. But if you feel that you do not have the training or judgement to know the difference in a situation where you could employ a less than lethal device over deadly force, then you should not carry until you do. In my view, you are not fully prepared for a self defense situation until you are prepared for both situations and know the difference. Its really worth the consideration.
    Great thread.

    I carry a 120 lumen tac light. The light is a flexible tool in many possible scenarios - combative, diffusing combative, and non-combative.

    As a defendant on trial for a shooting, which is the better statement by a prosecutor to your jury of 12?
    A. "The defendant came with the intent to shoot, and by his lack of any alternative to lethal force, this shooter does not belong in our society".
    B. "The defendant shot in spite of having a less lethal option, but I submit that he blew past that option and belongs in jail".
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Once again thanks for the feedback guys. My intention was just to share some things that I have found helpful and things that work. For those who are open to new ideas and want the benefit of someone elses experience I hope this helps. I am always on the side of non LEOs who carry for their protection, and am allways looking for ways to give them the benefit of my training when I can. Contradictory to some beliefs on this thread, you so not have to be an LEO to use this. Most private sector traing comes from police or military tactical training that some people pay thousands for. It's funny that I offer advice that has been proven to work on the street, and it is rejected by those who have it all figured out, which is ok, as I just want to make people think about their options and what it may mean to them in a situation they just know will never happen to them. Thanks for the participation, I hope this helps anyone who is looking to fill that middle ground in their self defense criteria.

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    I have a question about the use of pepper spray in general. If you feel that spray will stop a threat why not carry and use it exclusively? As I've been told, most S.D. situations take place at close distances. If so then according to logic, spray would "stop the threat" and you would have no use for a firearm. Yet we all carry one.

    I for one can respect someone's feelings that they will carry and use spray. I'm just not one of them.
    Pepper spray against a deadly weapon equals a big no. Pepper spray against an unarmed aggressor who can hurt you is a big yes. Situation dictates. You do what you have to do, but at least you have an option.

  5. #35
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    BGs play for keeps....so do I....and I don't fight fair. I do not seek vengeance (that belongs to someone else), but I will not give a BG an even chance.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  6. #36
    Member Array muddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Once again thanks for the feedback guys. My intention was just to share some things that I have found helpful and things that work. For those who are open to new ideas and want the benefit of someone elses experience I hope this helps. I am always on the side of non LEOs who carry for their protection, and am allways looking for ways to give them the benefit of my training when I can. Contradictory to some beliefs on this thread, you so not have to be an LEO to use this. Most private sector traing comes from police or military tactical training that some people pay thousands for. It's funny that I offer advice that has been proven to work on the street, and it is rejected by those who have it all figured out, which is ok, as I just want to make people think about their options and what it may mean to them in a situation they just know will never happen to them. Thanks for the participation, I hope this helps anyone who is looking to fill that middle ground in their self defense criteria.
    Buddy I see your point. I figured out a few months after starting to carry a firearm that a less lethal option was a good idea. I am like most of you that have posted, my first priority is to my family and that's it. I don't plan on getting involved as a third party but I do realize that things happen and priority's change as situations are encountered. I did a bunch of research on OC spray and its effectiveness on 2 and 4 legged animals, I looked over different forums to see what the masses thought and in the end decided a 4oz canister of Fox foam was worth my time and trouble to carry. Here are a few examples of things I came up with that having a OC spray could help.

    I'm at the park with my grandson a big bad dog is running around and being aggressive, said dog decides to charge me and my grandson. Park is full of kids and there family's, would it be safe to discharge my weapon? I have encountered more bad dogs then bad people in my time. Many times I have charged an aggressive dog to keep his attention on me and not the wife or kids. This usually take the fight right out of them when they see my big butt coming at them.

    I'm at a group function and someone is messing with me, once again is it safe to pull a weapon? Say this is a county fair, gun show, crowded store.

    There is always what ifs and you guys can say well I would do this or that with a dog or in a large crowd but you pack a weapon to take care of the what ifs shouldn't you also plan for the times when your weapon might be more of a problem then good.

    Just my thoughts on the subject.

  7. #37
    Ex Member Array maddyfish's Avatar
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    I have no problem with carry a pepper spray, and have in the past. But I always end up with them getting off of 'safe' or leaking. I have one in my school bag though.

  8. #38
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    If you carried a "solution" to all of life's "what ifs", you would need a backpack and Batman's belt.

  9. #39
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    Well said, and spot on

    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    If you carried a "solution" to all of life's "what ifs", you would need a backpack and Batman's belt.
    Well said, and spot on.

    What ifs can paralyze if they are not kept under control, if perspective isn't maintained.

    E.g., What if the Soviet Union Returned; What if the dollar isn't the world's currency; what if I'm attacked by 12 well armed women in bikinis.

    For what ifs to be useful they have to have more than some highly unlikely hypothetical basis. They need to be things from within our world and not from within our fertile imaginations.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    What ifs can paralyze if they are not kept under control, if perspective isn't maintained.

    What if I'm attacked by 12 well armed women in bikinis.
    For that, I am prepared...I'm willing to jump on that grenade!
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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