So, I am doing my stupid mandatory annual compliance training. (Of course, no weapons are allowed in the building.) I get to the slide entitled, "Guidelines if a [...] Weapon is Involved" in a violent confrontation, and see among the "strategies" suggested:
Follow instructions from the person who has the weapon.
[...]
Don’t risk harm to yourself or others.
I sigh as I think to myself, the nimrods responsible for writing and approving this drivel see neither contradiction nor irony in these statements...
Half my time is in my office (two doors) and half my time is out in my unit. I've got a 50/50 chance if work place violence breaks out that I won't be in the office (lucky for the individual, I have rifles in reach in there) though their only 22s, their semi-auto and will do the job.
This makes me love my office. The owner, one of my bosses and one of the secretaries have their licenses as well as me. And one slacker who's taken the class but not put in his paperwork. ><
I heard a rumor at work the other day that a video like that is on its way! I guess the only suggestion I will make is maybe offer the BG a cup of coffee so he or she is jacked up on caffine too!!
My workplace is a little bit different just because im an armed guard working graveshift at a medical facility, the only persons allowed to be armed on the property are myself and my supervisor who is only here for like 30 minutes a night. i look at it like this, if we have an active shooter, i would rather have me be the only person armed and taking down the shooter than have 30 people with ccw permits trying to take him out, and then creating a good guy vs bad guy identification problem for me. That is the main reason for many of these policies, if law enforcement or private officers are on site then you may be shot by one of us instead of the shooter, if your office has armed guards on site, i would not carry my own weapon, if it dosen't, bring as much firepower as you can. that being said im also hypocritical in that when i worked in an auto parts store that banned weapons, i still packed a 38 snubbie in my pocket
No offense to anyone in particular, but I've yet to shoot with a police officer, let alone someone in security, that made me feel SO GOOD that I decided to leave my weapon at home. If I trusted a security guard more than myself, I would hire one to be with my family.
As a side note, anyone that works for me is welcome to carry. Granted, I don't run a large corporation... A corporation is something standing on it's own, in a sense. Employees can be laid off by the dozens or hundreds. There's not much "personal" about one. Everything is in the numbers and when you are one of the many numbers on a piece of paper, it's hard to look at you as anything other than that. Absolutely sad, but makes sense why rules are what they are.
(Agreeing with the second half of the post above) I don't think that would deter me from carrying. I carry a 1911 under a button down or t-shirt with jeans and haven't been made in years. I imagine I could pull off a smaller gun under a suit, just saying. I might not come first to you, but I come first to me.
Well, it goes both ways, considering the employer's point of view. Also, how would you like it if a family member (or friend, etc) got shot at work by some idiot trigger happy co-worker who overreacted...and NEVER goes to the range to practice? Do you want to be around carriers like that in a close type situation, such as work? No? Well, that's why it's just easier (and really makes more sense) to ban carrying completely...from the employer's point of view. And, that's not even taking into account insurance considerations.
Funny I used to work at an elementary school as a chef. We had one of these safety compliance goofs come in and tell us about "safety" and our weapons policy. No knives, not even a tiny little pocket knife. Every day though I worked with a 13" kitchen knife.
Bug out and lock myself behind the heavy steel door that only I have the key to on shift.
Course I am management so the moron that is first contacted by the robber will surely ask me to come assist.
Makes me feel real good. But I am sure that the company will be happy to guarantee my safety on premises, or at least my wife's ability to pay off all of our debt with a bit left over after she lawyers up.
this is the first time ive posted anything in awhile. i started a new job at walmart they got me working weird hours anyways reason i picked this topic to post is that when i first started working the first thing out of my mouth was asking what was the policy about employees carrying concealed exact words "can not carry or even be in your car" my jaw dropped because scenarios started going through my head "shooting sprees and hostage situations". so i finally came to the conclusion that if something were to happen sporting goods isnt to far from where they have me working i'll just run over break the glass grab a shotgun and boom good to go if i get fired for doing that then so be it especially with the means to protect myself less then 20 feet from me. sorry if im just rambling just ever since they told me all this i needed a place to vent without sounding like a whack job. lol as far as complying with a BG i haven't asked yet but i will be when i go into work here soon.
As much as I do not like these policies I agree that they should be there. They cover the place from suits and a score of other legal problems. I think it is like a lot of things on the book, you have to make it up when it actually happens. I suggest using a fire extinguisher if it gets bad. It makes a great club and the gasses from it cause affixation if one is over exposed. Plus please don’t be that moron that brings a gun into work illegally and gets chough. Your peers will hate you for the lock down and you give gun owners a bad name.
Enter without permisson and you will find out why that case of paper has been placed so dam high over by the door and what I've rigged with all the dental floss I stole from other people's desks...
Just say "baa" to the "instructor"...and see what kind of response you get. Or challenge him/her with questions like....what if we're led to a back room, what dowe do? Because in all of the press reportings, every time people are led to a back room, everyone is killed. So is complying with the BGs demands and not resisting a good idea? What kind of life insurance does the company provide in this case? How will you take care of my family? What is your complete name and address so my estate can include you in the lawsuit against the company for not protecting me and "training" me to be compliant.
yep, I likes it too:yup:, wish there were more questions raised like this at workplaces all over the country and some amended employee policies to get around the insurance issue
dgreen said:
i would gladly hand over the cash in a situation like that. insurance should cover any major loss. they cant bring you back to life. the gun is for personal protection, not property protection.
not knocking you, I understand what you're saying and its intent...but think about what you're saying.....this piece of garbage just came in and pointed a gun at you, I don't like it when people point guns at me, 1. at the gun store, 2. at the range or 3. on the street
1 & 2 will get harsh words from me and possibly physical contact...3 will get rounds put in them...period
someone else later suggests you can't draw with the guy holding knife/gun in your face.....
when/if in this scenario you can't just stand there flat footed in front of the BG, you'll have to do something: move laterally if possible, duck, if he's in contact range your action in slapping/hitting his arms will be fast than his reaction....don't believe it...try it with a training gun, etc sometime and see if the"BG" says bang before your knocking his gun offline and initiating a wild crazy man attack on his....rear
practice this, get training in this just like you do a pistol so that when you don't have a gun on you--you don't have the mindset that you're unarmed
we practice weapon retention, weapon takeaways, being held at gunpoint/knifepoint pretty regularly and its amazing what you can do when you have a plan and put the "BG" in a OODA loop
Morse said:
handing over the money wasnt an issue, in the case where i was robbed i had 62 dollars in my register, the BG didnt feel like this was enough, and that is what scared me most.
perfectly understandable.....druggies get ticked off at this situation all the time and pull the trigger...hence....refer to my #3 above :smile:
[QUOTE-Bark'n]I'm in control of my own destiny, certainly not gonna let some loser dictate it.[/QUOTE]+1
what he said :congrats:
edr9x23super said:
My plan is simple, and I told my superiors this during a staff meeting:
1) I am going to grab my Supervisor or any company executive who happens to be standing near me.
2) I am using the one I grab as a human shield and heading for safety.
ALWAYS is a little to absolute way to look at it, combined with ONLY. I have personally had many occasions in my life were adding a gun on my person would have put me in a worse situation. Also just because one does not have a gun does by not mean they are de9fensiveless. Men killed each other very efficiently long before firearms. Sorry I fail to see when being a smart pragmatic person is being brainwashed.
REALLY? You only carry some of the time? When is that? The days you think you might be in a violent confrontation or robbed? Can you share your secret of how you know when those days are? Because in fifty plus years I have never been able to figure out which day that might be. Or do you get some kind of RSVP or memo?
To me carrying a deadly weapon is a responsibility an obligation I have to defend and protect my family myself and my fellow citizens. I know many disagree with me on the latter. Your choice, I personally have never been the guy who can stand by and let a woman get raped or the defenseless prey upon. It is a responsibility I take very seriously. I see nothing pragmatic about being haphazard or irresponsible.
One of our members sig line says it all ALWAYS Carry Never Tell
That said and to be clear. Just because you should ALWAYS Carry does not mean you have to draw it or use it. A gun is not the solution to every problem, even violent ones. It is there. It is an option. If you absolutely must. I have been assaulted while carrying a fire arm and a couple of knives as I always do. In none of those cases did a knife or gun come onto play. As it was not needed, I was not in fear of my life or of grievous bodily injury. IMO if you are someone who can not handle getting a fat lip without shooting someone you probably should never carry a gun. Or at least not until you are grown up.
Lets see. ALWAYS carry. Do you carry in court rooms? In planes? In other areas where it is prohibited by law? In foreign nations, that prohibit it? I think in many of these cases the carrying of a firearm is more inresponisibe then doing so. I have multiple experiences being questioned in North Africa and the Sinai. I have no dought that someone finding a gun on me would have made my life really miserable. I have no intent to ever end up in a Middle Eastern jail, or one in NY. Maybe your life is radically different from mine, may be you never drink or enter a bar, or go any were else that carrying is prohibited. So perhaps it is an absolute in your life, but it is far from one in mine.
Furthermore I do not sometimes carry, I never do. I might someday if I move out of one of the five boroughs (like upstate or back to Mass), But for now I am fine having a melee weapon in my pocket, which I have never needed. I usually do not even carry that if I am out of country. If I end up in The Kingdom long term after university I might buy a gun over there, but who knows.
i'm an independent contractor--i comply with my own rules. sometimes a seecamp 32--other times a colt compact 45. i am getting older, wiser and closer to my own mortality. if someone wants to screw with me--then i will deal with it.:rofl::comeandgetsome:
"If I trusted a security guard more than myself, I would hire one to be with my family." Good Point, but i was just putting it up from my perspective as the guard, I would want people to be able to back me up, but if someone draws a weapon and i know there is an active shooter on campus, i have no way of knowing who is who, thats the point i was trying to make, jonconsiglio, but you have a great point on trusting yourself over a law enforcement officer or security guard, because ill be honest with u, some of the guys that go to the range at qualifiying, scare the hell out of me and shouldn't even have guns. and you know how well you shoot, but u dont know how well we shoot, so you could very well have an advantage in range time. personally i go to the range every other week. i hope i dont come off as being defensive or sarcastic, i am being genuine in saying you had a really great point
for the record...i never said my posts were original...but if you cant think all angles of a situation you arent getting out of it...if going for the gun is the only thing you can come up with your thought process needs work...there are other options and considerations to be taken in many circumstances...somehow lots of people get through life without a gun at all...even through some pretty bad situations...conversly ther are those who would have made out better with a gun...and there are those who might have been better off if their gun stayed holstered....the thought process that allows you to believe your gun is your go to is weak and ill advised...believing that without your gun youre naked means youre poorly prepared for a lot of situations that dont require a gun to survive...thats why its thought provoking...instead of preaching the "you have a gun use it" mantra....try thinking of ways out of a situation or avoiding it altogether if possible...once lead flies a lot of things change and you might find out you arent as well prepared as you thought...by then its too late...
as far as the brady campaign defense goes...that is old and tired...we have an administration in place that loves to say they inherited a problem from a previous administration as an excuse for making our problems worse...it isnt any different than preaching guncentricity and then blaming those who dont believe the gun is the end all solution for supporting the brady campaign...you do a good job of that yourself....
Right on, like I said the absolutes in my world are completely different. However I find it interesting that you did not confirm that they are absolutes in your world either. Anywise I like the city; I will probably move out in a few years and will most likely make the commute in. :aargh4:
We had some Active Shooter training class last week. It said to run and get away. If you're cornered with the guy, don't comply and get shot, fight back and try to take the guy down.
what do you do for work where you have that level of flexability to leave one employe and go get another becuse you do not trust the other people working there.
second off how does it pay? and if it pays well how do i get into it?
I just finished some Workplace Violence training. If someone begins shooting dont run in a straight line,Dont sound the fire alaram to warn others so they can run out into the open and be easy targets, but I was surprised by what the last one was: Defend yourself by any means nessecary. The wheels started turning on that one.
I reviewed a "use of force" policy yesterday and about had a stroke. It is obvious that people with no clue write these things. I can't even begin to critique it. It was just too far out there.
I reviewed a "use of force" policy yesterday and about had a stroke. It is obvious that people with no clue write these things. I can't even begin to critique it. It was just too far out there.
Having attended these "sessions", we have come to the understanding that if "so and so", brings a golf bag to the building. Its time to leave. Depending on who it is, decides what type of bag they'll be carrying.
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