Workplace Violence Compliance Training

This is a discussion on Workplace Violence Compliance Training within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by dgreen the gun is for personal protection, not property protection. While I am in agreement with you that property is not worth ...

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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgreen View Post
    the gun is for personal protection, not property protection.
    While I am in agreement with you that property is not worth getting killed over. As it is legal in my state to do so I will use lethal force to protect property. The rule of thumb is don't want to die? Than don't steal from me.

    I won't draw on a gun pointed at me but God help the POS if he makes a mistake or takes the gun off of me.

    IMO it is always better to have a gun than not. With a gun, you at least have a choice and chance.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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  3. #62
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimBobTex View Post
    Morse, carry deep conceal or get in another line of work ASAP! More & more store clerks who comply are still getting shot. 2 recent incidents you'll find in the "Good, Bad, & Ugly" section, both killed. One clerk in KC, & a week later, a clerk (young kid saving for college) in Fort Worth that I posted. Just enter "clerk complied" in the search field, they are the top 2 postings.

    I would rather survive & face getting fired for a self-defense shooting, than be in good standing with my employer & burried 6' under. Stay safe!!
    you have evidence that being armed would have saved those people or were they killed before they would have had a chance to defend themselves?...and please...no more tom cruise movies for support...

    Quote Originally Posted by Looney View Post
    this is the first time ive posted anything in awhile. i started a new job at walmart they got me working weird hours anyways reason i picked this topic to post is that when i first started working the first thing out of my mouth was asking what was the policy about employees carrying concealed exact words "can not carry or even be in your car" my jaw dropped because scenarios started going through my head "shooting sprees and hostage situations". so i finally came to the conclusion that if something were to happen sporting goods isnt to far from where they have me working i'll just run over break the glass grab a shotgun and boom good to go if i get fired for doing that then so be it especially with the means to protect myself less then 20 feet from me. sorry if im just rambling just ever since they told me all this i needed a place to vent without sounding like a whack job. lol as far as complying with a BG i haven't asked yet but i will be when i go into work here soon.
    and somehow you seem to believe you can make your way to the sporting goods section...break the glass...retrieve a shotgun (they are not equipped with trigger locks at your store?)...load it...and provide a defensive shot before you could find an exit and utilize it?...

    who made the statement about internet bravado?...youre kidding right?...these guys are military quality tacticians...

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    you have evidence that being armed would have saved those people or were they killed before they would have had a chance to defend themselves?...and please...no more tom cruise movies for support...

    No one that was not there can really know that. People can only assume. That said I think the consensus is that it is always better to be armed and have the choice some chance rather than no chance at the mercy of depraved immoral criminals. If you don't agree. You will find many like minded people at the Brady Bunches volunteer victims squad
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  5. #64
    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    As much as I do not like these policies I agree that they should be there. They cover the place from suits and a score of other legal problems. I think it is like a lot of things on the book, you have to make it up when it actually happens. I suggest using a fire extinguisher if it gets bad. It makes a great club and the gasses from it cause affixation if one is over exposed. Plus please donít be that moron that brings a gun into work illegally and gets chough. Your peers will hate you for the lock down and you give gun owners a bad name.

  6. #65
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    No one that was not there can really know that. People can only assume. That said I think the consensus is that it is always better to be armed and have the choice some chance rather than no chance at the mercy of depraved immoral criminals. If you don't agree. You will find many like minded people at the Brady Bunches volunteer victims squad
    i didnt say i didnt agree...they were sited as examples but we dont know whether a gun would have done them any good or not...in the same thread a station attendant stated he had been robbed twice at gunpoint and unharmed with no firearm...how do you know he wouldnt have been killed attempting to defend himself?...

    there are times when one might be better off unarmed than armed but none of us really knows when that might be...there are also some people who might do more harm presenting a firearm in a situation than if they didnt...but everyone wants to believe they have some sort of hero quality and can turn a situation around with their firearm skills...my concern is that there are plenty of unskilled people who frequent forums and giving them a false sense of security now that they carry a gun may not be the wisest move...

    the questions are thought provoking....not necessarily my opinion...if youve already come up with all of the answers and dont need to excersize your mind then just ignore my posts....and the brady campaign stuff is old and tired...please...

  7. #66
    Member Array Looney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    you have evidence that being armed would have saved those people or were they killed before they would have had a chance to defend themselves?...and please...no more tom cruise movies for support...



    and somehow you seem to believe you can make your way to the sporting goods section...break the glass...retrieve a shotgun (they are not equipped with trigger locks at your store?)...load it...and provide a defensive shot before you could find an exit and utilize it?...

    who made the statement about internet bravado?...youre kidding right?...these guys are military quality tacticians...
    i didnt say it was a good idea lol just an idea none the less
    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act, but a habit" -Aristotle

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by kazzaerexys
    Enter without permisson and you will find out why that case of paper has been placed so dam high over by the door and what I've rigged with all the dental floss I stole from other people's desks...
    LMAO

    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229
    Just say "baa" to the "instructor"...and see what kind of response you get. Or challenge him/her with questions like....what if we're led to a back room, what dowe do? Because in all of the press reportings, every time people are led to a back room, everyone is killed. So is complying with the BGs demands and not resisting a good idea? What kind of life insurance does the company provide in this case? How will you take care of my family? What is your complete name and address so my estate can include you in the lawsuit against the company for not protecting me and "training" me to be compliant.
    yep, I likes it too, wish there were more questions raised like this at workplaces all over the country and some amended employee policies to get around the insurance issue

    Quote Originally Posted by dgreen
    i would gladly hand over the cash in a situation like that. insurance should cover any major loss. they cant bring you back to life. the gun is for personal protection, not property protection.
    not knocking you, I understand what you're saying and its intent...but think about what you're saying.....this piece of garbage just came in and pointed a gun at you, I don't like it when people point guns at me, 1. at the gun store, 2. at the range or 3. on the street
    1 & 2 will get harsh words from me and possibly physical contact...3 will get rounds put in them...period
    someone else later suggests you can't draw with the guy holding knife/gun in your face.....
    when/if in this scenario you can't just stand there flat footed in front of the BG, you'll have to do something: move laterally if possible, duck, if he's in contact range your action in slapping/hitting his arms will be fast than his reaction....don't believe it...try it with a training gun, etc sometime and see if the"BG" says bang before your knocking his gun offline and initiating a wild crazy man attack on his....rear
    practice this, get training in this just like you do a pistol so that when you don't have a gun on you--you don't have the mindset that you're unarmed
    we practice weapon retention, weapon takeaways, being held at gunpoint/knifepoint pretty regularly and its amazing what you can do when you have a plan and put the "BG" in a OODA loop

    Quote Originally Posted by Morse
    handing over the money wasnt an issue, in the case where i was robbed i had 62 dollars in my register, the BG didnt feel like this was enough, and that is what scared me most.
    perfectly understandable.....druggies get ticked off at this situation all the time and pull the trigger...hence....refer to my #3 above

    [QUOTE-Bark'n]I'm in control of my own destiny, certainly not gonna let some loser dictate it.[/QUOTE]+1
    what he said

    Quote Originally Posted by edr9x23super
    My plan is simple, and I told my superiors this during a staff meeting:

    1) I am going to grab my Supervisor or any company executive who happens to be standing near me.
    2) I am using the one I grab as a human shield and heading for safety.
    LEO/CHL
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
    --G.W. McClintock

    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    you have evidence that being armed would have saved those people or were they killed before they would have had a chance to defend themselves?...and please...no more tom cruise movies for support...

    and somehow you seem to believe you can make your way to the sporting goods section...break the glass...retrieve a shotgun (they are not equipped with trigger locks at your store?)...load it...and provide a defensive shot before you could find an exit and utilize it?...

    who made the statement about internet bravado?...youre kidding right?...these guys are military quality tacticians...
    I agree with you on the breaking glass scenario...they are usually equipped with trigger locks, however its not bad to think outside the box and improvise a weapon if at hand, but not thinking like they are Arnold, Bruce, Mel, or Tom

    as for evidence that being armed would have saved them....do we have evidence that citizens being armed would have/or has saved them from situations? I would bet we'd all say yes....so whats the difference in "us" vs people that work behind the counter at the store
    .....thats the same argument we all face everyday with the ANTIS...same logic, not saying you're anti and not flaming you...but think about what you're saying....its the same logic they use against us
    I think we all agree it would have been better for those people to be armed....to have a CHANCE to defend themselves instead of being helpless begging for their lives with a piece of garbage dictating to them what to do
    I'm not saying affirmatively that they would have prevailed, shot all dirtbags and danced in joy, but at least they should have the chance to protect themselves, and others that are in their situation should look at what has happened to other clerks....and decide if they are going to gamble with their lives that this dirtbag won't shoot them for the fun of it, to reduce the chance of witnesses or because they are drunk/high and are generally a piece of garbage

    Quote Originally Posted by targus
    Well, it goes both ways, considering the employer's point of view. Also, how would you like it if a family member (or friend, etc) got shot at work by some idiot trigger happy co-worker who overreacted...and NEVER goes to the range to practice? Do you want to be around carriers like that in a close type situation, such as work? No? Well, that's why it's just easier (and really makes more sense) to ban carrying completely...from the employer's point of view. And, that's not even taking into account insurance considerations.
    not bashing you so don't take it that way.....but your logic in this post is the EXACT same as the ANTIS/Brady Bunch
    they say this all the time....that ordinary citizens don't have the training, experience, equipment, etc to be safe and effective in these situations, and only LE/military should have guns, me as a LEO I 100% DISAGREE with this bovine excrement
    ....and every once in awhile some idiot helps them with their point by doing something stupid that makes all of us look bad

    we walk among carriers everyday at the store, mall, gas station, church, work that are probably just as you describe and I AGREE with your point that they all need to be trained...not just get a gun and start carrying
    there is a quote I like that I "stole" from P95carry on this forum:
    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."

    and there is another one that should go along with it:
    Man without a gun has got no chance but if a man has a gun, he has a chance.
    LEO/CHL
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
    --G.W. McClintock

    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    the questions are thought provoking....not necessarily my opinion...if youve already come up with all of the answers and dont need to excersize your mind then just ignore my posts....and the brady campaign stuff is old and tired...please...
    They are not thought provoking nor original. Your questions paraphrase two of the brady bunches oldest catch phrases "You are more likely to get hurt with your own gun than defend yourself with it and Adding a gun to a violent confrontation only makes matters worst.
    Yes I have already come up with the answer that is why I am on a pro self defense board. DefensiveCarry.com not unsure.com or undecided or on the fence.com.
    The answer is simple. It is ALWAYS better to be armed and capable of defending yourself than to be a cowardly volunteer victim. The proof of that is two and half million violent crimes are stopped every year with guns. Two hundred thousand women a year use a gun to stop a rapist. Number of violent crimes stopped by defenseless volunteer victims none or at least not enough to count

    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    the brady campaign stuff is old and tired...please...
    We are in complete agreement. It is old and tiresome to constantly see pro brady pro gun control anti 2A trash on a pro gun forum

    It is never ever better to be unarmed defenseless when confronted with violent armed thugs NEVER. There was no advantage to being unarmed at Fort Hood, Virginia Tech, Columbine or Trolly Square. Attacks by armed gun men are ONLY stopped by armed citizens. Presenting tired old disproved brady bunch propaganda is neither productive or thought provoking. It is in fact a waste of time and contrary to having the proper mind set for those who have decided to be responsible adults.

    My dad used to say if you don't want to be called a duck don't walk, talk or act like a duck

    Quote Originally Posted by targus View Post
    Well, that's why it's just easier (and really makes more sense) to ban carrying completely...from the employer's point of view.
    This is exactly the kind of un thinking The Sky Is Falling brainwashing I am talking about. Justifying employers getting employees killed based on fears unfounded in fact. If instead of blindly parroting anti self defense fanatic TV propaganda a little research would reveal.

    Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606) (Kleck, Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America,)
    Only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high." (George F. Will, "Are We a Nation of Cowards'?," Newsweek)
    Yes
    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    the brady campaign stuff is old and tired
    I agree
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  11. #70
    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    ALWAYS is a little to absolute way to look at it, combined with ONLY. I have personally had many occasions in my life were adding a gun on my person would have put me in a worse situation. Also just because one does not have a gun does by not mean they are de9fensiveless. Men killed each other very efficiently long before firearms. Sorry I fail to see when being a smart pragmatic person is being brainwashed.

  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexHassin View Post
    ALWAYS is a little to absolute way to look at it, combined with ONLY. I have personally had many occasions in my life were adding a gun on my person would have put me in a worse situation. Also just because one does not have a gun does by not mean they are de9fensiveless. Men killed each other very efficiently long before firearms. Sorry I fail to see when being a smart pragmatic person is being brainwashed.
    REALLY? You only carry some of the time? When is that? The days you think you might be in a violent confrontation or robbed? Can you share your secret of how you know when those days are? Because in fifty plus years I have never been able to figure out which day that might be. Or do you get some kind of RSVP or memo?

    To me carrying a deadly weapon is a responsibility an obligation I have to defend and protect my family myself and my fellow citizens. I know many disagree with me on the latter. Your choice, I personally have never been the guy who can stand by and let a woman get raped or the defenseless prey upon. It is a responsibility I take very seriously. I see nothing pragmatic about being haphazard or irresponsible.

    One of our members sig line says it all
    ALWAYS Carry Never Tell

    That said and to be clear. Just because you should ALWAYS Carry does not mean you have to draw it or use it. A gun is not the solution to every problem, even violent ones. It is there. It is an option. If you absolutely must. I have been assaulted while carrying a fire arm and a couple of knives as I always do. In none of those cases did a knife or gun come onto play. As it was not needed, I was not in fear of my life or of grievous bodily injury. IMO if you are someone who can not handle getting a fat lip without shooting someone you probably should never carry a gun. Or at least not until you are grown up.

    In this case ALWAYS applies. Always ALWAYS carry
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  13. #72
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyColby View Post
    I hear your pain and frustration
    Like when I see a security guard without a gun... what good does that do if someone walks in with a _________(fill in the blank with your favorite weapon, bat, tire iron, crowbar, etc.) into your business.
    NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G18CFw0lnD8

    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.

    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

  14. #73
    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    Lets see. ALWAYS carry. Do you carry in court rooms? In planes? In other areas where it is prohibited by law? In foreign nations, that prohibit it? I think in many of these cases the carrying of a firearm is more inresponisibe then doing so. I have multiple experiences being questioned in North Africa and the Sinai. I have no dought that someone finding a gun on me would have made my life really miserable. I have no intent to ever end up in a Middle Eastern jail, or one in NY. Maybe your life is radically different from mine, may be you never drink or enter a bar, or go any were else that carrying is prohibited. So perhaps it is an absolute in your life, but it is far from one in mine.
    Furthermore I do not sometimes carry, I never do. I might someday if I move out of one of the five boroughs (like upstate or back to Mass), But for now I am fine having a melee weapon in my pocket, which I have never needed. I usually do not even carry that if I am out of country. If I end up in The Kingdom long term after university I might buy a gun over there, but who knows.

  15. #74
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    i'm an independent contractor--i comply with my own rules. sometimes a seecamp 32--other times a colt compact 45. i am getting older, wiser and closer to my own mortality. if someone wants to screw with me--then i will deal with it.

  16. #75
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    "If I trusted a security guard more than myself, I would hire one to be with my family." Good Point, but i was just putting it up from my perspective as the guard, I would want people to be able to back me up, but if someone draws a weapon and i know there is an active shooter on campus, i have no way of knowing who is who, thats the point i was trying to make, jonconsiglio, but you have a great point on trusting yourself over a law enforcement officer or security guard, because ill be honest with u, some of the guys that go to the range at qualifiying, scare the hell out of me and shouldn't even have guns. and you know how well you shoot, but u dont know how well we shoot, so you could very well have an advantage in range time. personally i go to the range every other week. i hope i dont come off as being defensive or sarcastic, i am being genuine in saying you had a really great point

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