Witnessed Violence Up Close Today

Witnessed Violence Up Close Today

This is a discussion on Witnessed Violence Up Close Today within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; After church today, my wife wanted to go to a local strip mall to buy some things at a craft store. I stayed in the ...

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Thread: Witnessed Violence Up Close Today

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Witnessed Violence Up Close Today

    After church today, my wife wanted to go to a local strip mall to buy some things at a craft store. I stayed in the truck with our two children while she went inside. I parked a good distance from the store, in the "no ding" zone.

    While sitting in the truck, my attention was drawn to my front right as two young men started kicking and punching a third. Distance was less than 20 yards away.

    In the next few seconds, the thoughts that came to me were:

    I cannot tell who the good guys and bad guys are. I didn't see who started things, and for all I knew, they were ALL bad guys.

    I briefly considered hosing them all with pepper spray, but quickly discounted that idea as protecting my kids was my main priority.

    Noting no weapons, I got my pepper spray ready just in case, and went to call the police via my truck's OnStar system. Since this is my wife's truck (I only get to drive it on weekends) I momentarily could not remember which button to press...duh! the RED ONE. If you think you're going to figure things out while under stress - forget it! Training training training...

    OnStar worked exactly as advertised. The police were on the scene in a few minutes...but by that time the fight was over and those involved were leaving the scene. Another witness saw the vehicle the attackers were leaving in, and I saw police cruisers giving chase.

    My wife got back to our truck after it was all over. She carries, but only in "risky" areas. I told her that what I saw reinforced to me that things can happen very quickly, any where, at any time. I hope she will carry more regularly now.

    As we drove away, I thought about what I could have done better, and I realized that although I did not see any weapons, I had no way of knowing if shots could have come our way at any moment. I should have immediately driven away! Especially with kids in the car.

    I also realized I had forgotten my cell phone at home in the mad dash to get to church that morning (I did have my LCP as always). It was a very good thing our truck has OnStar.

    This was also a lesson in how unreliable eye witness testimony is. I did not give my contact info to 911 dispatch - they only asked for location, number of people involved, and if I saw any weapons. If I had to testify, I don't think I could have really told much of value. It was hard to tell what was going on in the mle, especially as I was on the phone, scanning for weapons, and trying to calm the kids.

    And by the way - why do women take SO LONG to shop?!

    Hope this provides some "lessons learned." It did for me!
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
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  2. #2
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    Thumbs up

    That's the problem with real-life. It's never what you plan for, and hindsite is always 20-20.

    Bravo Zulu.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    After church today, my wife wanted to go to a local strip mall to buy some things at a craft store. I stayed in the truck with our two children while she went inside. I parked a good distance from the store, in the "no ding" zone.

    While sitting in the truck, my attention was drawn to my front right as two young men started kicking and punching a third. Distance was less than 20 yards away.

    In the next few seconds, the thoughts that came to me were:

    I cannot tell who the good guys and bad guys are. I didn't see who started things, and for all I knew, they were ALL bad guys.

    I briefly considered hosing them all with pepper spray, but quickly discounted that idea as protecting my kids was my main priority.

    Noting no weapons, I got my pepper spray ready just in case, and went to call the police via my truck's OnStar system. Since this is my wife's truck (I only get to drive it on weekends) I momentarily could not remember which button to press...duh! the RED ONE. If you think you're going to figure things out while under stress - forget it! Training training training...

    OnStar worked exactly as advertised. The police were on the scene in a few minutes...but by that time the fight was over and those involved were leaving the scene. Another witness saw the vehicle the attackers were leaving in, and I saw police cruisers giving chase.

    My wife got back to our truck after it was all over. She carries, but only in "risky" areas. I told her that what I saw reinforced to me that things can happen very quickly, any where, at any time. I hope she will carry more regularly now.

    As we drove away, I thought about what I could have done better, and I realized that although I did not see any weapons, I had no way of knowing if shots could have come our way at any moment. I should have immediately driven away! Especially with kids in the car.

    I also realized I had forgotten my cell phone at home in the mad dash to get to church that morning (I did have my LCP as always). It was a very good thing our truck has OnStar.

    This was also a lesson in how unreliable eye witness testimony is. I did not give my contact info to 911 dispatch - they only asked for location, number of people involved, and if I saw any weapons. If I had to testify, I don't think I could have really told much of value. It was hard to tell what was going on in the mle, especially as I was on the phone, scanning for weapons, and trying to calm the kids.

    And by the way - why do women take SO LONG to shop?!

    Hope this provides some "lessons learned." It did for me!
    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    That's the problem with real-life. It's never what you plan for, and hindsite is always 20-20.

    Bravo Zulu.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Absolutely correct! Things in real life play out rather quickly and you're hard pressed just keeping up.

    Good job 10thmtn Glad it all turned out okay. Also, it was good to have the ring side seats in order to instill in you how things tend to play out in real life on the streets!
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array DrLewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    And by the way - why do women take SO LONG to shop?!!
    because it's a "She" thang!
    "Brains before Bullets"

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    Ex Member Array maddyfish's Avatar
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    Ouch, no phone to call your wife, if you had driven away she might have walked out to that situation and found some trouble.

    Very difficult situation. Maybe move your truck up to the store front? Adding distance between you and the fighters, and putting you closer to the wife?

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    I briefly considered hosing them all with pepper spray, but quickly discounted that idea as protecting my kids was my main priority.
    Lesson #1: Always keep the goal in mind.

    "Hosing" them with p-spray would have meant exiting the car, leaving your children, getting into a multi-person melee in which you assumed everyone was a bad guy. Unless you are a police officer and there's a need to stop the tornado, what possible good could come of injecting oneself into such a thing? Exiting the car could have only ugly outcomes, so far as I can tell.


    My wife got back to our truck after it was all over. She carries, but only in "risky" areas.
    I told her that what I saw reinforced to me that things can happen very quickly, any where, at any time. I hope she will carry more regularly now.
    Lesson #2: Anytime, anywhere. "Risky" is wherever something blows sideways? Where can that occur? A-n-y-w-h-e-r-e.


    As we drove away, I thought about what I could have done better ... I should have immediately driven away! Especially with kids in the car.
    Sounds like you did fine. You stayed in the car; you kept the kids protected, as your ONLY real priority; and you called police given the large-scale violence you were witnessing.

    Could have been weapons. Could have all bee BG's. No telling how a junkyard dog fight is going to turn out. What life has taught me that such things (JYDF's) are simply not worth getting into the middle of.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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  7. #7
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddyfish View Post
    Ouch, no phone to call your wife, if you had driven away she might have walked out to that situation and found some trouble.

    Very difficult situation. Maybe move your truck up to the store front? Adding distance between you and the fighters, and putting you closer to the wife?
    That's one other nice thing about OnStar - if I had driven away, I could have used it to call her cell phone and told her to remain inside the store until things calmed down outside.

    Folks rely on their cell - but you don't always have it, the batteries die, they get launched out of the car in an accident (seen it happen), etc. OnStar is a nice back-up communication method.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
    CT Lasers

  8. #8
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    Sounds like you did fine. You stayed in the car; you kept the kids protected, as your ONLY real priority; and you called police given the large-scale violence you were witnessing.

    Could have been weapons. Could have all bee BG's. No telling how a junkyard dog fight is going to turn out. What life has taught me that such things (JYDF's) are simply not worth getting into the middle of.
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    I agree^^^^^^^^^
    you did fine.No sense jumping into the fraccas
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

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    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    You had your fingers on the trigger of a 2 ton weapon. No need to go anywhere.
    Unless, you felt the need, then all you needed to do was hit the gas.

    I personally would rather be a witness to a crime then a victim/participant.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    I think you handled the situation very well!!!
    NOT LIVING IN FEAR, JUST READY!!!
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness,
    nor the arrow for its swiftness,
    nor the warrior for his glory.
    I love only that which they defend.
    -J.R.R. Tolkien

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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    All's well that ends well.

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    Call me old school due to my AARP-friendly age, but man, I just can NOT bring myself to rely on cell phones as most folks seem to these days.

    Battery life, being in dead zones, trying to reach a spouse who's busy talking or texting, or simply not having the dang thing with you (raising hand here - it's just not a "must have" part of my kit yet, like knives and car keys) - all confound the potential usefulness of cell phones.

    My <new> wife is new to my self-defense and survival sensibilities, but dang, she's a quick study. We've been discussing a "what if" plan lately - if natural or man-made disaster happens and normal means of communication are unavailable, where and how will we regroup? She's quick to join the conversation and although our plan remains incomplete, if the SHTF tomorrow we'd at least have a relatively small list of places where we would try to find each other.
    Smitty
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    Senior Member Array SilenceDoGood's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing 10thmtn, thought provoking. My gf is always wanting to run into the mall and pick something and have me wait outside in the parking lot. So I will keep this in mind next time.

    SDG
    "A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington

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    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    You handled it well I think...and now, as you consider things in hindsight, you see the small things (that add up) that we tend to forget under stress. That's why it's always good to have a Plan B and/or layers of defense & planning.

    Good job! A valuable learning experience for all of us.
    Fortune favors the bold.

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    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array xsigma40cal's Avatar
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    Well done. By the book, as it should be.

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