Tenn law: deadly force - forcible rape or kidnapping

Tenn law: deadly force - forcible rape or kidnapping

This is a discussion on Tenn law: deadly force - forcible rape or kidnapping within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I can't find anything. I'm an instructor and I should know, but I don't. Now I'm going to find out. Tennessee law allows for the ...

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Thread: Tenn law: deadly force - forcible rape or kidnapping

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
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    Tenn law: deadly force - forcible rape or kidnapping

    I can't find anything. I'm an instructor and I should know, but I don't. Now I'm going to find out.

    Tennessee law allows for the use of deadly force to prevent death or serious bodily injury to yourself or to another person. Not counting Castle issues, the state issued materials say that this is the only justifiable reason to use deadly force.

    The question is, "are forcible rape and/or kidnapping items that would be considered serious bodily injury and would legally justify the use to deadly force in order to prevent or terminate?"

    Opinions are welcome. Citations, especially Tennessee related ones, are greatly appreciated.
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

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    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    In the state of Michigan, if the person is in fear of their life, you can use deadly force. This is how I look at it, if I was being raped or kidnap, would I think that my life is in danger? My answer would be yes.
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    This is my opinion as it applies to other states, but I already know it applies in Missouri.

    But the answer, to my knowledge is YES forcible rape and kidnapping by it's very definition can cause at the least serious bodily injury. And you have no way of knowing whether it is going to lead to your death, so you have to assume it might and therefore are correct in righteously being in fear of death or serious bodily injury. I believe it passes the "reasonable man" smell test.
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    How many rapes and or kidnappings end up in Death,I say yes deadly force is justified
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    This is my opinion as it applies to other states, but I already know it applies in Missouri.

    But the answer, to my knowledge is YES forcible rape and kidnapping by it's very definition can cause at the least serious bodily injury. And you have no way of knowing whether it is going to lead to your death, so you have to assume it might and therefore are correct in righteously being in fear of death or serious bodily injury. I believe it passes the "reasonable man" smell test.
    Well said IMHO.

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    It is spelled out specifically here, but the inference is clear enough in the TN statute. Those are life threatening crimes. There would have to be very unusual circumstances for a prosecution to try the argument that these are not acts that cause serious bodily injury.

    On the rape question, you don't want to see the photo of my sister in-laws face after being beaten to a pulp during a home invasion and rape. There is no way that lethal force would not have been justified under the TN statute.

    And, kidnapping is almost always a prelude to murder, especially when it isn't done to collect ransom.

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    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    In Pennsylvania, rape and kidnap are spelled out under the lethal force statute. Yes, you may use lethal force to prevent/stop.

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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    I would think that deadly force would be justified to combat rape and kidnapping in about any location. Now if you are in NYC or NJ, Illinois, or places like that you don't have that option as you can't carry a weapon. What a bummer!

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    Legal deadly force situation in Texas as well.

    PC 9.32, 2B)
    A person is justificed in using deadly force against another to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery
    Last edited by HuttoAg96; April 1st, 2010 at 05:17 PM. Reason: added specifics

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    Remember, in TN the threshold is what a reasonable person in that situation would believe. I think most would agree that it is entirely reasonable to assume that one's life is in danger in either of the proposed situations. And I imagine that it would be very easy to find any number of experts who would testify that such fear is reasonable in these situations. As a former assistant DA, I know it would have to go before a Grand Jury, but I certainly would have a hard time pressing for a True Bill if deadly force were used in either of these instances.
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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Never saw a legal definition that included either kidnapping nor rape..... they usually say "reasonable force necessary to stop the attack".

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    it seems like a good prosecutor would have a much easier time making a kidnapping more of a fuzzy issue than a rape. rape is pretty clear and easy to define whereas i could see a creative defense attorney finding a way to make a jury see a kidnapping as something else "beyond a reasonable doubt". he wanted to get in the car, we were just joking... who knows. i keep thinking about the post i read here somewhere about the guy that didn't shoot the man taking the little girl away in what appeared to be a highly questionable situation but ultimately it was his daughter. sometimes things aren't what they appear to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    I would think that deadly force would be justified to combat rape and kidnapping in about any location. Now if you are in NYC or NJ, Illinois, or places like that you don't have that option as you can't carry a weapon. What a bummer!
    It is for ME...and I don't go to states that don't allow me to defend myself. Voters in states with no 'rights' deserve all that they voted for...

    Not a problem for those of us in FL.
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    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spar10 View Post
    it seems like a good prosecutor would have a much easier time making a kidnapping more of a fuzzy issue than a rape. rape is pretty clear and easy to define whereas i could see a creative defense attorney finding a way to make a jury see a kidnapping as something else "beyond a reasonable doubt". he wanted to get in the car, we were just joking... who knows. i keep thinking about the post i read here somewhere about the guy that didn't shoot the man taking the little girl away in what appeared to be a highly questionable situation but ultimately it was his daughter. sometimes things aren't what they appear to be.
    a creative defense attourney can make a rape look like something else also...i wouldnt be overly concerned about what happens in court...

    is there a statute that allows dealy force in the event of a forced felony in your state?...rape and kidnapping are both forcible felonies...

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    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    a creative defense attourney can make a rape look like something else also...i wouldnt be overly concerned about what happens in court...

    is there a statute that allows dealy force in the event of a forced felony in your state?...rape and kidnapping are both forcible felonies...
    No, forcible felony is not justification for deadly force under Tennessee law. Deadly force may be used to defend against "serious bodily harm" and death (39-11-611). Other than Castle issues, there is no other listed justification.
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

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