Police kick down the wrong door - Page 2

Police kick down the wrong door

This is a discussion on Police kick down the wrong door within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Another thing to point out is if the police are kicking in your door, they are expecting someone dangerous on the other side. When you ...

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Thread: Police kick down the wrong door

  1. #16
    Member Array gatorgrizz27's Avatar
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    Another thing to point out is if the police are kicking in your door, they are expecting someone dangerous on the other side. When you come around the corner with a gun drawn to see who just busted into your house, you are most likely taking a bullet.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    You will be sitting on death row if you live through the encounter. You would be charged with murdering a police officer. This is why we should stop the practice of no knock or knock and kick warrants. Many innocent people have been killed by police during these raids.

    Michael

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    the amount of paranoia and misinformation in the thread are amazing/appalling.

    1) No knock warrants require some very specific information to be granted. They aren't just passed out like candy at halloween.

    2) If the agency did make a mistake and enter somewhere they weren't supposed to be they would be liable for that.

    3) Innocent people getting killed by police is VERY much the exception (anecdotal evidence aside) it very rarely happens.

    4) Any decently trained SWAT (insert appropriate acronym here) team would either A: shoot the person pointing a weapon at them (BAD for every one) or B: keep level headed enough to de-escalate the situation (unless Redneck Rambo is gonna start just slinging lead all over the place at the first sign of some one in their house)
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmc3169 View Post
    the amount of paranoia and misinformation in the thread are amazing/appalling.

    1) No knock warrants require some very specific information to be granted. They aren't just passed out like candy at halloween.

    2) If the agency did make a mistake and enter somewhere they weren't supposed to be they would be liable for that.

    3) Innocent people getting killed by police is VERY much the exception (anecdotal evidence aside) it very rarely happens.

    4) Any decently trained SWAT (insert appropriate acronym here) team would either A: shoot the person pointing a weapon at them (BAD for every one) or B: keep level headed enough to de-escalate the situation (unless Redneck Rambo is gonna start just slinging lead all over the place at the first sign of some one in their house)
    1) True

    2) True again, they should be forced to pay all damages.

    3) Agreed, it rarely happens. The fact that it happens at all is totally unacceptable though. During war we must be willing to accept collateral damages but not during police actions in our country. We are not an a war zone and should not be in fear of our own police.

    4) Agreed any shooting will be bad for the homeowner. That said exactly why would a homeowner defending his home against an unknown invader be considered a rednecked rambo? If he has broken no laws and therefore would not be expecting police to invade his residence wouldn't it be reasonable for him to assume that anyone breaking in was a criminal? How long do we give him to decide if this home invasion is being done by a criminal or is a mistake on the part of the government?

    Michael

  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    I would say in most of this types of cases, these are done in the dead of night (not all, but most if I'm not mistaken to) as the safest time when the police can with speed and surprise on their side enter a house and subdue the occupants without a struggle or very little. That's just my thinking and what I have seen around here. That might not be true everywhere.

    With that in mind, as a homeowner, if such an occurance would happen, being woke up from a dead sleep to noise and doors/windows/glass being broken, dogs going crazy, I'm going to defend myself from my bedroom and give myself a few seconds to collect my thoughts from behind my bed and cover for myself and wife and if it is the police, hopefully they will announce again and give me time to announce I'm armed and we can calm the situation down before myself or my wife is harmed.

    Unlike some folks, I'm not under any impression even with all my military training and such that in the middle of the night or anytime of the night with surprise on their side, I'm going to take on fully armed SWAT with autos with just a pistol or shotgun and my wife's safety on my mind also.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
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    Whether or not you'd end up winning in court over something like this seems to me like it would depend primarily on how well the police identified themselves as they entered.

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    I would say in most of this types of cases, these are done in the dead of night (not all, but most if I'm not mistaken to) as the safest time when the police can with speed and surprise on their side enter a house and subdue the occupants without a struggle or very little. That's just my thinking and what I have seen around here. That might not be true everywhere.

    With that in mind, as a homeowner, if such an occurance would happen, being woke up from a dead sleep to noise and doors/windows/glass being broken, dogs going crazy, I'm going to defend myself from my bedroom and give myself a few seconds to collect my thoughts from behind my bed and cover for myself and wife and if it is the police, hopefully they will announce again and give me time to announce I'm armed and we can calm the situation down before myself or my wife is harmed.

    Unlike some folks, I'm not under any impression even with all my military training and such that in the middle of the night or anytime of the night with surprise on their side, I'm going to take on fully armed SWAT with autos with just a pistol or shotgun and my wife's safety on my mind also.
    I would never even consider fighting any police. Wouldn't matter if I were better armed than them or not. I would beat them in court because I have committed no crimes.

    My problem is that being a lawful citizen I would automatically assume anyone making that type of entry would be there to do me harm. Law enforcement has no reason to break in so it must be criminals doing it. Under my states castle law it is presumed that anyone making unwanted entry into my house is there to do me harm.

    Even if you yell police as you are making your entry is that enough notice for me to know who you are? Would a criminal not yell the same thing during a home invasion to give himself an advantage?

    The laws as used now protect the officers making an entry but do nothing to protect the person who through no fault of their own may kill said officer breaking into the wrong house. It is a sad terrible thing if an officer dies but it should not be the responsibility of a surprised resident to make a split second decision as to who is breaking in.

    Michael

  8. #23
    Member Array Machina's Avatar
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    I have heard of these cases before in the news.

    More often than not, they shoot every dog on the premise as well. I've read a few articles where they get the wrong house, shoot the dog, and offer nothing more than a 'sorry' when they realize they screwed up.

    I'm with a few others though, unless I see hear 'POLICE', I am getting my gun if I hear the door get broken down.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    I think the people in the apartment spoke Spanish only. This happened about five years ago in Daytona I never did find out what the out come was. It was the wrong address.
    I don't speak Spanish, but if someone is hollering "Policia" at me, I think I'd get the idea.
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  10. #25
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    I would have shot them dead, and probably been killed myself. That is BS breaking into a house. It's no win situation. Oh police state...
    But you have to think. Criminals don't normally knock, do they?

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmc3169 View Post
    the amount of paranoia and misinformation in the thread are amazing/appalling.

    1) No knock warrants require some very specific information to be granted. They aren't just passed out like candy at halloween.

    2) If the agency did make a mistake and enter somewhere they weren't supposed to be they would be liable for that.

    3) Innocent people getting killed by police is VERY much the exception (anecdotal evidence aside) it very rarely happens.

    4) Any decently trained SWAT (insert appropriate acronym here) team would either A: shoot the person pointing a weapon at them (BAD for every one) or B: keep level headed enough to de-escalate the situation (unless Redneck Rambo is gonna start just slinging lead all over the place at the first sign of some one in their house)
    Well it may be very rare but if YOU happen to be the one that gets killed because the cops have the wrong address then it would still suck!

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array Spade115's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i10casual View Post
    I would have shot them dead, and probably been killed myself. That is BS breaking into a house. It's no win situation. Oh police state...
    But you have to think. Criminals don't normally knock, do they?
    Some do now actually they knock someone opens the door they attack no one answers they break in anyways. Just non yet breaking in and screaming police....well some but sudo cops too....well shiver me timbers, now your screwed either way.
    Last edited by SIXTO; April 8th, 2010 at 02:08 PM. Reason: language work around
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  13. #28
    Member Array romansten9's Avatar
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    From the comments here, it seems like all a BG has to do is get a simple uniform and badge (doesn't even have to look that great at 3AM when its dark) then he can kick your door in and shoot you. He could claim he has a search warrant and a piece of paper that says whatever. By the time you have a chance to see it close up, you would be dead. So it seems there is no defense to this scenario.

  14. #29
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    1:If there were a number of "Fake COP" home invasions in my area...

    2:And, the Real Police were issued one of these knock and kick, or no-knock warrants... and they did enter my house under such circumstances (errantly).

    3: I would scream (while calling 911), "You have the wrong house! I am armed, I am calling 911 right now! I am armed! I am calling 911! You have the wrong house!"

    If #1 was not a known fact, skip straight to step #3.

    I speak english, I assume the cops do as well... I know that those doing the Knock and Kick (at least one of them) has trained for this... I'm certain that their not sending rookies on this mission except as backup.

    I'm reasonably certain that my yelling the above is going to de escalate the situation if it is real cops. As, thru telephone conversation with me, radio com with the cops, and so on... The cops will be made aware that they have the wrong address, I will be made aware that these are real police, and the situation will rectify.

    If my (land line) phone don't work... it ain't the real cops... Cel phone works...

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array Super Trucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmc3169 View Post
    the amount of paranoia and misinformation in the thread are amazing/appalling.

    1) No knock warrants require some very specific information to be granted. They aren't just passed out like candy at halloween.

    2) If the agency did make a mistake and enter somewhere they weren't supposed to be they would be liable for that.

    3) Innocent people getting killed by police is VERY much the exception (anecdotal evidence aside) it very rarely happens.

    4) Any decently trained SWAT (insert appropriate acronym here) team would either A: shoot the person pointing a weapon at them (BAD for every one) or B: keep level headed enough to de-escalate the situation (unless Redneck Rambo is gonna start just slinging lead all over the place at the first sign of some one in their house)

    Maybe in Alaska cops don't kill innocent people. Move to Detroit and your opinions would change.

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