Justification to use OC? - Page 2

Justification to use OC?

This is a discussion on Justification to use OC? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Knightrider When I carry my camera, I have it around my neck. If someone was trying to take it, they would be ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array cz75luver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knightrider View Post
    When I carry my camera, I have it around my neck. If someone was trying to take it, they would be yanking my neck so I wouldn't even be looking for the spray if you get my drift.
    In Florida, getting your butt kicked wouldn't necessarily be considered a grave bodily harm unless there is a significant difference in body weight/mass/strength and/or skill. Property is no reason to take a person's life. The use of deadly force must be "reasonable".

    The key pieces are: 1) Ability, 2) Opportunity and 3) Intent. So they have the Ability, and they have the Opportunity, but did they have the Intent . . . ? If going for the camera, then no, the intent wasn't there.


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array cz75luver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merischino View Post
    I am not a lawyer nor am I a many-years gun carrier, but a newbie. So take this with the necessary grain of salt.

    Would a strong armed robbery not be the equivalent of a forcible felony? It is my understanding that at least in Florida and quite possibly in many states, use of deadly force is considered justified if it is in response to the commission of a forcible felony that is in progress or has just been committed. E.g., if someone broke into your house whether they hvae a weapon or not, a forcible felony is in progress and as a result you are justified in the use of deadly force to protect yourself.

    Robbery, correct me if I am wrong, is a felony. Not a misdemeanor. Strong-arm robbery involves the use of force, which makes me think it is a "forcible felony". The rules for judicious use of deadly force seemingly would apply.

    Which, by extrapolation, would tend to indicate to me that use of less-than-lethal force would of course also apply.

    Anyone with actual knowledge about whether or not a strong armed robbery is considered a forcible felony please pipe in. Also, anyone with knowledge of how non-deadly force gets ajudicated...as I'm sure it's a nasty beast with differential rules and not something which follows rationality and common sense in its actual laws.
    Correct, in Florida robbery is considered a forcible felony, but the use of deadly force must also be reasonable or it would be considered excessive force. Would a jury think the person was attempting to steal/damage the property or kill you? If all the person is going for is the camera, you'd need a really sympathetic jury. If there is any doubt whether they were trying to kill you or not, then chances are you're hosed.

    The key pieces are: 1) Ability, 2) Opportunity and 3) Intent. So they have the Ability, and they have the Opportunity, but did they have the Intent . . . ? If going for the camera, then no, the intent to cause grave bodily harm and/or death wasn't there.

    IMHO, use of deadly force would be a no, but OC, no problem. Think of it this way, say the camera set up cost $15k. A lawyer to get you out of using deadly/excessive force would easily surpass this amount easily going over $25k. Which seems the wiser decision is up to you.

    Think of this as well, say initial investigation determines you were NOT justified in use of deadly force and you get charged with manslaughter or aggravated battery. Guess what, you are now charged with a forcible felony. If you had a weapon on you, then you would fall under the Florida 10-20-Life rule. This mandates a minimum 10 year prison term for a first offense if found guilty.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array cz75luver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by friesepferd View Post
    depends on the state of course, but I think in most of them if someone is trying to rip something off your body, it can probably be claimed that you are in fear of your life (which I would be!). It is a different situation if you have your camera on the bench next to you and someone grabs it and runs and you chase them down and OC them.
    Again, was the Intent to steal property or kill you.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array cz75luver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    i dont identify it as a different story at all...if someone steals something from you you are not bound to stand and watch them run away with it...you may reclaim your property with non-lethal force...you arent going to jail for running someone down and using oc spray on them to retrieve your property...run em down and shoot em and youre looking for trouble...
    Alleluja!!!

  5. #20
    Member Array ScotWarrior's Avatar
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    GA - robbery = felony. game on.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined" ~Patrick Henry

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