Man stops car in front of you, exits vehicle with gun drawn.

This is a discussion on Man stops car in front of you, exits vehicle with gun drawn. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If I am driving 100mph on the highway and popping wheelies, I would expect to be pulled over by the police. I would expect the ...

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Thread: Man stops car in front of you, exits vehicle with gun drawn.

  1. #16
    Member Array Bandolero's Avatar
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    If I am driving 100mph on the highway and popping wheelies, I would expect to be pulled over by the police. I would expect the police to think I was deranged, and to act appropriately.

    I don't think the police have a case about the posting of the video. As a juror I sure would acquit.

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Spade115's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    For those of you that mentioned running into him with the bike, keep in mind that hitting a ped can easily, and will usually make you lose control. Even with a 700lb dresser.

    I don't think this is a good part of the plan.
    Might be the best thing to do if your not packing a gun. A full dresser would be harder to manuver in a tight situation then a bobbed bike or sports bike, (Rode a 06 Roadking with mods for a little over a year) and that was hard to manuver in certain situations then my sporty or the little blast I am riding now.

    Personally I would rather risk damaging my bike then taking a bullet.
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  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    For those of you that mentioned running into him with the bike, keep in mind that hitting a ped can easily, and will usually make you lose control. Even with a 700lb dresser.

    I don't think this is a good part of the plan.
    You are correct to some extent. I agree that hitting a pedestrian at speed would cause problems, but in this case I think it would be safe to assume that as you sped towards him, he would not stand there and create a full impact. I was thinking more along the lines of clipping him as he tried to dive out of the way.

    Obviously the whole thing is not a desireable sittuation, but I would say making him tumble and trying to escape is better than sitting stationary and taking a bullet.

    But you really can't say, that is one of those decisions where there are too many variables to judge until you see it unfold in front of you. Definitly good to consider options though.
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  5. #19
    Member Array calynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    The scenario you describe in your post is not exactly the same scenario in the video so it's not a good comparison.

    The scenario in the post does not include you as the rider, riding like an idiot and does not include a marked police car directly behind you when you get pulled over.

    As far as I'm concerned this is a baited scenario and counter productive. YMMV
    A marked police car behind me means absolutely nothing if the lights aren't flashing, which they should have been in this case, if a serious infraction was recorded and a stop initiated. Why didn't the marked car take the lead, and the off-duty provide backup?


    Disclaimer: I KNOW THE BIKER WAS IN THE WRONG, THIS IS JUST HYPOTHETICAL.

    It'd be a stretch, but what if the marked car was following (pursuing) the off-duty cop which was just driving erratically through traffic (if he was just driving crazy and wasn't following you, the crazy biker) and you just happened to be there when they got bottled up in traffic? What would you do?

  6. #20
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Biker shouldnt have been endangering people on the road like that and the officer didnt need to draw his weapon.

  7. #21
    Member Array johnb231's Avatar
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    you can see the cops badge on his belt by his holster.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array canav844's Avatar
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    Well if I'm going based off of the scenario presented in the video, where I had seen a Trooper in the median (1:16) as I sped past then when I saw him pull out (1:30), pulled a wheelie sped more and attempted to elude ducking off of the highway, and then was confronted by a man with a gun in hand and badge on belt, I'd be dumping the bike and lying face down on the pavement waiting for the handcuffs and informing them at the soonest possible moment that the camera attached to my helmet was recording both audio and video, so that on top of speeding, reckless driving, fleeing and eluding that I would also avoid illegal recording charges that carry an extra 5 year sentence, as consent is required by both parties in Maryland, where this video took place; and there would be an expectation of privacy when in handcuffs and inside the police cruiser and to continue recording would be problematic.

    If it was unlike the video but like the scenario you proposed, then my legal driving, and defensive driving tactic of "always leave yourself and out" would be able to kick into effect and I would be able to navigate around his vehicle (preferably with a wide enough gap to the right of the vehicle putting his vehicle between him and myself making any attempted shot on his part harder) or (in my car) into reverse to seek available cover and remove myself from the immediate threat of harm. as the situation in the manner you presented it would mean I was in a situation that the accelerator would be a more prudent alternative than the trigger, as to sit on a motorcycle or behind one would leave me little concealment and zero cover in the middle of the road.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    The scenario you describe in your post is not exactly the same scenario in the video so it's not a good comparison.

    The scenario in the post does not include you as the rider, riding like an idiot and does not include a marked police car directly behind you when you get pulled over.

    As far as I'm concerned this is a baited scenario and counter productive. YMMV

    Quote Originally Posted by calynn View Post
    A marked police car behind me means absolutely nothing if the lights aren't flashing, which they should have been in this case, if a serious infraction was recorded and a stop initiated. Why didn't the marked car take the lead, and the off-duty provide backup?


    Disclaimer: I KNOW THE BIKER WAS IN THE WRONG, THIS IS JUST HYPOTHETICAL.

    It'd be a stretch, but what if the marked car was following (pursuing) the off-duty cop which was just driving erratically through traffic (if he was just driving crazy and wasn't following you, the crazy biker) and you just happened to be there when they got bottled up in traffic? What would you do?
    Ok, Even though this is a "bait and switch" scenario, I'll play along.

    And since it is a "bait and switch" scenario, I'll go ahead and make a couple assumptions....

    The cop who pulled in front of the biker and pulled his weapon was probably either "off duty" or on the job working plain clothes. (I suspect however that he was probably "off duty") I believe he was the one who witnessed all the erratic, stupid and dangerous behavior of the biker on the highway. (And thus, became "the complainant" for the report).

    Since he was probably off duty with no lights and siren on his privately owned vehicle, and also not in uniform, he called dispatch on his cell phone, identified himself, and had an "on duty" uniformed officer with a marked patrol car rendezvous with him on the highway.

    I also believe that the car stop probably went down the way it did because by the time the "on duty" marked police car arrived on scene, it was probably just around the same time the biker happened to be exiting the highway. That is probably why as they came to the end of the exit ramp and bogged down in traffic with people stopped in front is why the "off duty" officer (and person making the complaint) darted in front of the biker, while the marked "on duty" unit pulled in behind for the vehicle stop.

    Granted, the "off duty" officer probably could have used another form of ID to identify himself instead of his gun. (such as his badge) But he did what he did and in the end, it was the biker who was driving in a hazardous way.

    BTW... the off duty officer may not have had his badge with him. He may have only had his department issued ID card. In which case, flashing a little ID card does not really command a lot of respect or even a proper attention getter, the way a badge does.

    Most departments do not issue two badges to use off duty plus the one for the uniform. I know a lot of LEO's who do not transfer their badge to their wallet every time they go off duty. If they are going to wear the same uniform shirt for more than one shift, they keep all their brass on the uniform and likewise, changing uniforms as often as they do, they simply keep all their collar brass and badge sitting on their dresser at home and place it on a clean shirt when they get ready for work. (It's a big enough pain in the butt to transfer all your collar brass and badge to a clean uniform every time they go to work, let alone take the time to put it in a wallet every time they go off the clock.) (Just my assumptions here)

    btw... Most marked police cars park behind the offender at a traffic stop in order to provide visual warning with their emergency lights to other drivers on the road and use their vehicle as a physical barrier, in order to protect them from being run over or hit by other motorists while they conduct business at the side of the road. (I couldn't tell if the emergency lights were activated or not as the video stopped recording too quickly to tell. Also, a lot of officers after the target vehicle is stopped, switch their light bar to only have the rear facing lights flashing. I've seen that many times during car stops on the side of the road. Forward flashing lights turned off and only the rear flashing lights activated.)

    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Biker shouldnt have been endangering people on the road like that and the officer didnt need to draw his weapon.
    I agree with that 100% But it is what it is.
    -Bark'n
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  10. #24
    Senior Member Array digitalexplr's Avatar
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    This such a stupid video to try to use for anything other than to document a moron in action.

    It doesn't matter whether the plain clothed office was on duty or off duty. He is a cop. He does not know who the moron is on the bike. Any office that would approach said moron without being ready for anything needs retraining.

    The officer never points his weapon at the moron. The officer is simply taking appropriate action to insure his safety an quickly reholsters his weapon. The moron clearly is not concerned about anyone's safety including his own.
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalexplr View Post
    This such a stupid video to try to use for anything other than to document a moron in action.

    It doesn't matter whether the plain clothed office was on duty or off duty. He is a cop. He does not know who the moron is on the bike. Any office that would approach said moron without being ready for anything needs retraining.

    The officer never points his weapon at the moron. The officer is simply taking appropriate action to insure his safety an quickly reholsters his weapon. The moron clearly is not concerned about anyone's safety including his own.
    Wow... very well put. Excellent! And stated in 1/4 of the space I used.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    As far as the actual situation goes, it seems to be pretty justified on the part of the officers.

    Now for the sake of the situation as described by you. If I've been minding my own business, following the laws and generally being a good rider my first reaction to a vehicle pulling in front of me and an armed occupant coming after me with no visible ID or bade would get the following from me: I'd first look for the best escape option. Sounds like at least my right or left side is cut off due to the angle of the vehicle that pulled in front. If exit isn't an option I'm pinning him to his vehicle with my front fender and then drawing.
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  13. #27
    Senior Member Array digitalexplr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Wow... very well put. Excellent! And stated in 1/4 of the space I used.
    Glad I could assist!

    I you watch the whole video in full screen mode you can pick out a lot of interesting details.
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  14. #28
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    "IF" , there was nothing precluding this ...... I would have drawn and a good chance he would have gotten shot..... .... I would definitely feel threatened and that my life was in danger at that point. He had not identified himself in any way prior to actually getting up to and touching the motorcycle.

    Now, given "if" it is true he was running from LEO's, then he knew who it was and needed to give it up and go peacefully. Never should have 'run' in the first place.

    I'm betting others would have testified he "identified himself", which he didn't do in this video until he was right up touching the bike .

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoWeBePart1 View Post
    Thank you. Those are the words I could not find.
    Agreed....Ditto.

    Also the rider does before stopping look back and note the cruiser coming at him...Which is when he immediately cut back on power and pulled over within seconds to the left but not on the shoulder (where he'd have wrecked).
    So the unmarked car pulls up and by relation to the totality of the circumstance it's reasonable to believe that the dark glass ultra clean Chevy is a police car. Folks know the unmarked cruiser types and look in their given state...As well their is a marked cruiser directly behind him too in tow.

    Taking everything into account s on the balance, this looks like a proper action to me...Even if had not been acting like squid for miles prior.
    As well if he had been in a four wheeled vehicle the LEO would have done exact same for this sort of stop exiting with firearm drawn as for his own protection considering a bike is a near 1K lb. bludgeon (with rider included) on 150+ HP wheels.

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  16. #30
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    I agree with Jang the second video shows him looking back,and I was under the impression that he left the highway to try to elude.given the circumstances I believe he knew what was up.It's not the same as driving the speed limit and your stopped in traffic when some guy jumps out of the car ahead of you and pulls a gun
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