This is a discussion on Man stops car in front of you, exits vehicle with gun drawn. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Passin' Through I don't see a problem with the LEO drawing the gun. He never pointed it at the man but the ...
Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
Richard M Nixon
Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”
Motorcyclist Charged for Recording - Baltimore News, Weather, Breaking News | WMAR-TV
This was posted on my local motorcycle forum thought you might like to read what was put out about it.
When life gives you lemons, Open a lemonaid buisness.
This isn't assault. He was trying to evade capture, that's why he was backing up. There's a marked car directly behind him. Once he sees the drawn gun he decides otherwise and shuts the bike off.
Let's not turn this into something it isn't.
Also, someone was talking about him blasting by the trooper in the median but if you look at the tape around 1:10 he's actually going less that 70 mph (thanks youtube 720p HD) and is being passed on the left by a Honda Accord, where the trooper is sitting.
He was looking in his mirrors going up the exit ramp, but wouldn't be able to see the marked car because the unmarked or off-duty was in the way. I think he was just trying to figure out what the hell was going on with this guy hopping out of his car with a gun.
Was the biker wrong for speeding/acting like a squid? Yes, but the officer could have reacted more professionally. That's what they are supposed to do: act professionally. What he did wasn't.
That's not what we have here. We have a chase followed by an apprehension.
That's why I said let's not turn this into something it isn't. It isn't an innocent encounter with an armed person.
I do ride a crotch-rocket, and from the limited clip i viewed, he would have had a tire tread on his chest, no way i could draw in time, but all i have to do is pop the clutch and a bike like that turns into a 450lb weapon, then i might ask a question or two. Now if i knew a LEO was behind me wig-waggin, same result, this guy could have been a road rager, and that LEO would not have time to stop him or me.
And yes, occasionally there are some high speed hijinks involved.
What I would do in the OP's submitted situ is diffinately different than what I would do if I WAS the instigater and had just been possibly "running" from the law.
So it is not really a fluent thread for me.
But if it WAS the OP's situ, then I HOPE that all my "training" would instinctively enable me to produce my 9mm rather quickly.
Anyone consider the reason the off duty officer had his gun drawn and at the low ready, (he never once pointed it at the guy) because he considered the possibility of the guy trying to run him down with the 900 lb rocket on wheels as he was stepping directly in front of him when exiting his car?
How many people on this forum alone, in this thread and the other thread running has already said, "I'd have just dumped the clutch and plow right over him."
Ever think the cop was anticipating that and was ready to side step out of the way and defend himself with his pistol.
We also don't know if the marked patrol car with his emergency lights on directly behind him had already issued a command via his PA system.
I'm just sayin... I wouldn't bet the bike rider would win any lawsuits.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
POsted about this in the other thread. Got deleted. Be assured this guy was not running from the cop or the Thug in the dark car. If you ride modern sportbikes then you will know that he is not running from the cop, if you don't ride modern sportbikes then you'll just have to guess why he is not running from the cops, as it is impossible to state why without violating forum rules.
I have watched the vid several times and been unable to see a badge. It may be there but it is certainly not apparent.
I am glad this ended well. Well in that nobody died.
Gezz bark'n, you sound like the media? Thats a sport bike and probably weighs 450lbs, I drive a Goldwing and it only weighs in at 810lbs (depending on who you ask ) I know it's moot point, but lets not go over board. I have been driving scooters for 30+ years. Even if Mr Numbskull dropped the clutch, there was not enough distance for the bike to do any damage, other than to really PO the guy with the gun, he could have simply pushed the bike out of his way.
I do have a couple of problems with the whole situation
1) the biker should have his license/registration/insurance revoked.....period. I have NO SYMPATHY for idiots like this
2) The "plains clothed cop" or "off duty cop" should have backed off and let a UNIFORMED OFFICER handle the traffic stop. The ODC probably all ready had the numbskulls Tag number, There really was no need for him to get out of his car AND not being in uniform may have put himself in extreme danger. His only saving grace at this point was the marked car behind him.
3) IF this did turn into a chase, what was the ODC going to do anyway, other than get in the way of the marked patrol cars.
My point is, if some Pin Head jumps out of a car and yells "POLICE" and he has no visible badge or uniform and pulls a gun.......are you going to believe him??? seriously?
For a Biker, this is a "NO WIN" situation. I know a lot of us say we would pull our guns, blah,blah,blah. Reality check? do you carry your gun UNDER YOUR JACKET???or even OC? go back and watch the video and see how fast this went down and tell me you could have:
1) put the bike in neutral (or dropped it)
2) opened your jacket or un-zipped a pocket and retrieved your firearm
3) acquired the target and got off ONE SHOT?
I don't think this would have worked out as well as some would think
HAPPY NEW YEAR
In my younger days I got pulled over by a state trooper while driving recklessly (rapidly changing lanes while speeding).
The officer never drew his gun when approaching my vehicle.
How come he holstered it after the trooper arrived? If he felt it necessary to draw his weapon in the first place he would have had it drawn the entire video.
The first thing he should have drawn was his badge while hand on his weapon.
Did the rider of the bike have an outstanding warrant?
I just saw the complete video and I dont know but I dont see him trying to "evade" the police. My normal speed on my HD was 120, and I am a speeder. However I dont know if backing up a bike was considered evading as well. Never once have I been pulled over and had a gun drawn on me on my motorcycle, in my truck when I have to hop down I get guns drawn. This might of been slight over reacting.
When life gives you lemons, Open a lemonaid buisness.
That video pisses me off to no end
The statement has been made that this is two or three seperate issues and it is.
1. The OP stated how would we react to the guy who blocks you with his car, gets out with gun. Answer get away, drop Harley draw gun and so on that is a legitimate tactical question.
2. Guys blocks you off, gets out of car with gun, eventually says he is a police officer. Yeah as viewed as a single incident bad tactics, over zealous all sorts of things come to mind.
3. Guy blocks you off, gets out with gun, marked state police unit with uniformed officer standing there behind the rider, lights on, kinda makes you think pursuit but oh god that is just my pro LEO stance. As already mentioned off duty/undercover would I have gotten out a badge yeah, but I would have also stopped for the marked units chasing me also. Just me though.
If you read some of the comments on the blog webpage people there took the snipet at face value never even looked at the whole thing and they see nothing wrong with that "The cops were wrong they did this, sue them" Depending again on your state laws this could be considered a felony.
It does not matter the skill level of the rider, it matters about the skill level of the 75 year old woman who panics when she sees the biker doing a wheelie in her mirror and locks up the brakes in the middle of the freeway that causes an accident that kills four kids in a mini van behind her.
Somewhere on here a person made reference this is the way I/we drive on the autobahn, there is nothing wrong with it, that was Maryland not Germany and by law you have the obligation to drive safely and not act an ass on the autobahn or the German police will arrest you and you will go to jail, it is not a free for all.
This is what I am having trouble comprehending here. We are all hopfully intelligent, law abiding people who have gone to the trouble and expense to obtain a CCW permit. Many complain about how the anti gunners do this, and the media does that, and god forbide the cops do something we FEEL is wrong, not illegal, they are bashed and trashed.
But this guy in the video acts an ass, apparently runs from the police, and he is defended with such comments as "His bike could easily outrun the police" "He was not dangerous he seemed to know what he was doing (aka skill level)" "I do not see him as trying to evade the police" Spade glad you never got guns drawn on you when stopped on your bike, did you ever get stopped on your bike after a pursuit? Have a feeling guns would be present but again just me.
If someone would like to tell me how this guy, the rider, has a complaint or basis for anything in reference to the whole video, calmly and rationally please do I would love to hear it.
"A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013
Thanks for all your responses.
The rider was completely in the wrong, but that isn't what I cared about I'm sure his ticket hurt. I was interested in this topic since I believe the cop acted rashly and put his life in danger. Had the rider been armed, he may have reacted tragically and the video footage may have defended his actions.
Sorry I was only telling half the story, but it was the only half I was interested in.
Crime should be outlawed.