Drawing Gun on BG, and he runs away... - Page 4

Drawing Gun on BG, and he runs away...

This is a discussion on Drawing Gun on BG, and he runs away... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ZombieShoot Yes and no. Really depends on the individual situation. Just look at it like this. If he is running away but ...

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Thread: Drawing Gun on BG, and he runs away...

  1. #46
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieShoot View Post
    Yes and no. Really depends on the individual situation.

    Just look at it like this. If he is running away but is a threat to you or a 3rd party then yes shoot. (say he's running away but still firing at you)

    If he is running away not to get away but to move out of your line of fire but he has the intention of staying in the fight then shoot.
    If he's running away and it's obvious he's not coming back or is no longer a threat then no.

    Not so easy to decide what he is doing so you've got to be very careful because there is no telling what a DA will do even in a gun friendly state like Florida if you shoot him in the back.

    I wouldn't worry about the inside of your house because you can say he was turning as you were firing which would probably be true.
    you are going to have one heck aof a good time explaining how you knew their "intent"....

    the turning while shooting and shoot em in the back and roll em over defense are about as weak as they get....you dont think forensics is really that stupid do you guys?...


  2. #47
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    you are going to have one heck aof a good time explaining how you knew their "intent"....

    the turning while shooting and shoot em in the back and roll em over defense are about as weak as they get....you dont think forensics is really that stupid do you guys?...
    I think if they've just committed a felony, I wouldn't be giving them the benefit of the doubt.

    And I'm not saying anyone should try to tamper with a crime scene (why would anyone type that in the first place...?) but not everything on CSI is possible in real life.

  3. #48
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNinjaGo View Post
    I think if they've just committed a felony, I wouldn't be giving them the benefit of the doubt.

    And I'm not saying anyone should try to tamper with a crime scene (why would anyone type that in the first place...?) but not everything on CSI is possible in real life.
    buddy...thats not even csi 101...and i'm not talking about the tv show....the first cop to the scene is gonna recognize that...a shooting isnt something everybody walks up to and says "ok, its clean"...its a long drawn out legal process and you dont get a second chance to tell your story...what sounds good in your mind right now cause its the cool ting to get away with isnt real...its fantasy...when you carry a firearm fantasy doesnt cut it...

  4. #49
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Well.. in Kansas they upheld the verdict of a man who pulled a weapon while in fear of his life (knife), and the BG ran at that point. He was charged with assault with a deadly weapon for pulling out the knife.

    They said, the law only justified the use of deadly force if your life is 'immiment danger" .... nothing about "if" you pulled a weapon and the threat terminated at that point. So, the Legislature fixed the law and made it retroactive... so any cases like that would have to be dismissed. It's sitting on the Govenor's desk and he won't sign it, because he's very very anti gun.

    Pay attention to what your laws "don't say" , as much as what they do say.

  5. #50
    Member Array ZombieShoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    you are going to have one heck aof a good time explaining how you knew their "intent"....

    the turning while shooting and shoot em in the back and roll em over defense are about as weak as they get....you dont think forensics is really that stupid do you guys?...
    Running away doesn't just mean he turns a 180 and runs straight from you.

    Maybe he's running to your left to duck behind some type of cover.

    Get it?

    And I do recall saying:

    "Not so easy to decide what he is doing so you've got to be very careful because there is no telling what a DA will do even in a gun friendly state like Florida if you shoot him in the back."

    Nor did I advocate messing with any body or any evidence. Nor did I suggest planting anything. I've always said on this board and others not to do that stuff.

    But you feel free to keep reading the imaginary things you keep seeing between the lines of my posts....

  6. #51
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieShoot View Post
    Running away doesn't just mean he turns a 180 and runs straight from you.

    Maybe he's running to your left to duck behind some type of cover.

    Get it?

    And I do recall saying:

    "Not so easy to decide what he is doing so you've got to be very careful because there is no telling what a DA will do even in a gun friendly state like Florida if you shoot him in the back."

    Nor did I advocate messing with any body or any evidence. Nor did I suggest planting anything. I've always said on this board and others not to do that stuff.

    But you feel free to keep reading the imaginary things you keep seeing between the lines of my posts....
    i get it...is that where the intent thing comes in?...he was running to cover so he could get a better shot at me?...was that you?..damn!...now i forgot....where are the csi guys?...

    not all of my responses were directed at your quote...you got a chip on your shoulder?...

  7. #52
    Member Array FLSquirrelHunter's Avatar
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    I personally have no interest in catching BGs. We have people who like to do that, they open carry and wear uniforms, or conceal and wear detective badges.

    But if you want to try... if he didn't show a gun, is already running away, and you're got cover, then the best way to protect yourself with a gun might be to fire a round into the ground (assuming it's dirt) next to you. I seriously doubt that BGs running away would turn around if they thought they were being shot at. They would either run faster, dive for cover, or surrender.

    The disadvantage is that you take away your ability to hear what's going on.

    'So why did you pull the trigger?'
    ' uh, I need to discuss that with my attorney'

    that swirling sound is the flush of your savings into defense costs

  8. #53
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Also what if you maim, disable for life or even kill the person.
    A human being.
    A human being who in the immediate was no longer a threat to you and had been fleeing as with a changed mind & heart.
    You gonna have to carry that to and possibly beyond the grave.
    Would that change of heart and mind come after he just popped a round through your child? Oh, he's retreating, perhaps he feels bad!!?!?! I don't advocate shooting someone in the back if they are clearly retreating, because it will be voluntary manslaughter. If you consider spending time in jail, and losing your right to own guns, then do what you think is just. Under a constitutional rule of law, you would not be charged with anything, just a thought.

    Now, under the current laws and political climate, there are very few instances you can shoot someone in the back. Texas is the exception where you can blatantly gun people down nomatter what their orientation is, so long as they are committing certain crimes, under specific circumstances.

    In most other states, you cannot, except for:

    If someone breaks into your home, and is attempting to kill you, and is moving through your home, perhaps to reposition their attack, but clearly not retreating, you may shoot them in the back.

    If there is a kidnapping, and someone has your loved one/friend in their clutches and are dragging them to a van, where accomplices are awaiting to abduct, you may shoot the abductor in the back(and the people in the van if they are helping to drag the abductee inside).

    If you are in a store, for example(but this applies to any situation), and a man walks in and starts firing on people, you may shoot him in the back, as he is actively engaged in killing people.

    If you walk in on a loved one or friend, being raped, you may shoot the rapist in the back.

  9. #54
    Senior Member Array cz75luver's Avatar
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    The three words to remember is that the BG must have the 1)Ability, 2) Opportunity and 3) Intent to cause grave bodily harm and/or death. Commit those three words to memory.

    Intent seems like the main item missed by most. If the person is fleeing, then they no longer have the Intent. Now, if the person continues to come forward and/or engage, you don't know if they have the Intent, but it would be reasonable to assume they do.

  10. #55
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cz75luver View Post
    Intent seems like the main item missed by most. If the person is fleeing, then they no longer have the Intent. Now, if the person continues to come forward and/or engage, you don't know if they have the Intent, but it would be reasonable to assume they do.
    I'm not running down a check list if my life is in danger. Second, the person doesn't need to be moving forward to be dangerous. If, for example, they are in your house, have already shot at you, but then started moving down the hallway, you don't know whether they are attempting to flee, or moving to reposition for another attack.

    You can only assume they are still going to do you harm. You don't know their intent, but they have proven they are capable and willing to kill you, by attacking you the first time. As I see it, so long as they are in your house, they are a threat, and that threat will be taken care of.

  11. #56
    Senior Member Array cz75luver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    I'm not running down a check list if my life is in danger. Second, the person doesn't need to be moving forward to be dangerous. If, for example, they are in your house, have already shot at you, but then started moving down the hallway, you don't know whether they are attempting to flee, or moving to reposition for another attack.

    You can only assume they are still going to do you harm. You don't know their intent, but they have proven they are capable and willing to kill you, by attacking you the first time. As I see it, so long as they are in your house, they are a threat, and that threat will be taken care of.
    If they've already shot at you, wouldn't they have already shown their intent?.?

    Shoot/don't shoot, doesn't matter to me. I'm not the one that will go to jail and have to deal with the legal expenses. Good luck.

  12. #57
    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL Vet View Post
    I don't know if this has been answered before, but I'm wondering what your rights are in this situation. In the instance of a bad guy breaking into your home, or outside the home you have to draw on a bad guy that tried to rob you or something similar- say they run away.

    Can you shoot them to stop them, or is that against the law?


    Mister, it sounds like you *need* to attend a seminar ASAP on the rights and responsibilities of firearm carry that is specific to Florida before you find yourself on the wrong side of the legal system.

    Why would you want to shoot a fleeing person? I just can't get my head around how that could be anything else but a crime.
    2nd Amendment: because personal violence never makes an appointment.
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  13. #58
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    Would that change of heart and mind come after he just popped a round through your child?
    Be it ones child, their mom, their dog or a stranger...Nothing changes as related to law and legality.

    Oh, he's retreating, perhaps he feels bad!!?!?! I don't advocate shooting someone in the back if they are clearly retreating, because it will be voluntary manslaughter.
    Agreed and correct.

    If you consider spending time in jail, and losing your right to own guns, then do what you think is just. Under a constitutional rule of law, you would not be charged with anything, just a thought.
    Huh?

    Now, under the current laws and political climate, there are very few instances you can shoot someone in the back. Texas is the exception where you can blatantly gun people down nomatter what their orientation is, so long as they are committing certain crimes, under specific circumstances.

    In most other states, you cannot, except for:

    If someone breaks into your home, and is attempting to kill you, and is moving through your home, perhaps to reposition their attack, but clearly not retreating, you may shoot them in the back.
    This is clearly a different scenario altogether than what the OP had asked about.
    My response was specific to the OPs query, not general to any and every possibility of any threat condition present, future or past case in timing.

    If there is a kidnapping, and someone has your loved one/friend in their clutches and are dragging them to a van, where accomplices are awaiting to abduct, you may shoot the abductor in the back(and the people in the van if they are helping to drag the abductee inside).
    Again a completely different scenario than what the OP inquired about.

    If you are in a store, for example(but this applies to any situation), and a man walks in and starts firing on people, you may shoot him in the back, as he is actively engaged in killing people.

    If you walk in on a loved one or friend, being raped, you may shoot the rapist in the back.
    Also once again a completely different scenario with totally different conditions such as the threat being an _active_ threat.
    These specific scenarios have their own specific conditional and contextual responses...That are not generic and not same as what the OP very specifically had asked about.

    My response was and is specific to the question, and is not nor should be viewed as being a generic all encompassing fillin the blank type answer for any and all conditions.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  14. #59
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    My response was and is specific to the question, and is not nor should be viewed as being a generic all encompassing fillin the blank type answer for any and all conditions.

    - Janq
    Your response is also a sentiment shared by victims/survivors no matter what the situation is. So, I felt I would run with it, through different situations.

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    Your response is also a sentiment shared by victims/survivors no matter what the situation is. So, I felt I would run with it, through different situations.
    Ohh...!

    My bad. I was confused by your meaning/intent.
    To that end please disregard my reply. : \

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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