Directed to LEOs open to everyone. Patrol rifle.

This is a discussion on Directed to LEOs open to everyone. Patrol rifle. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hi, Some of you know that I am a Pa State Constable. W/O going into the history of us or all our dealings here is ...

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 61

Thread: Directed to LEOs open to everyone. Patrol rifle.

  1. #1
    Member Array AllAbtSlfDef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    SW PA
    Posts
    398

    Directed to LEOs open to everyone. Patrol rifle.

    Hi, Some of you know that I am a Pa State Constable. W/O going into the history of us or all our dealings here is the basic run down.

    *** LONG POST - SORRY - BUT WORTH IT ***


    We serve warrants out of magisterial judges, we do civil work, we serve domestic relations and criminal warrants. We do not aswer 911 calls usually, maybe on a officer back up or closest officer emergency. We have to supply all of our own equipment. ALL OF IT. We do not get training for a patrol rifle or shotgun. We often work alone in my county because we get paid per warrant. We can only get ourselves and another person paid on certain warrants. Most of them in my county are one person pays. Here is a scenario.

    You walk to the door, knock, anounce, and say what your business is. Your defendant or whoever answers responds with force and it escalates to a fire fight. You have your pistol and two spare mags.

    I work in the country alot so picture this in a rural no police setting, with slow trooper response due to distance.

    You retreat to cover and this conver is your car. You are about 30-50 yards out and taking fire from a hunting rifle or AK, SKS, Shotgun etc.
    You call for back up then what....?

    I do not have the training for a rifle or shotgun. "officially"

    I have heard a thousand times that Constables don't "need" a rifle or its for tactical entry or you are a "cop" or its for a shots fired response etc. All this crap makes no sense to me.

    I would like to hear what you all think. Should someone in this situation carry a rifle to even the odds of returning home even though there is no "official training"?

    Do you think that the only purpose to carry a LG is for shots fired or tac entry issues?

    If I am getting shot at that is a shots fired scenario to me and I am first officer on scene and need to respond to those shots that they are firing at me.


    Open the gates.
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,744
    Your life is just a valuable to you as mine is to me. Get some 'unofficial' training and a rifle.

    Besides the scenario you just described, there could be a hundred different times that you need to have a rifle.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  4. #3
    Member Array AllAbtSlfDef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    SW PA
    Posts
    398
    1000% agreed.
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  5. #4
    Member Array Bandolero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    267
    There is no shortage of incidents in the not too distant past of officers finding themselves under fire by somebody armed with a rifle. If you are able to survive/weather the storm of the initial contact (usually an ambush for all practical purposes), having equal or greater firepower may be your only salvation.

    I would much rather have a patrol rifle in the car than a shotgun.

    There will always be the potential issue of whether it will be physically on you when the moment it is needed arrives. Luck favors the prepared though.

    A constable is a lawman. Half the people who criticise "the militarization of the police" are hypocrites who would be the first to go get themselves a rifle if they had to do lawman's work for a living. Assuming they even had the personal fortitude. I don't give the thoughts of black helicopter enthusiasts any consideration whatsoever.

    Similarly, I give no credence to the thoughts of those officers who don't take their jobs seriously either. Many of those "what do you think you are, a SWAT cop" types are the ones whose sidearms are full of dust and dirt, and who only fire their weapons when qualification time mandates no more avoidance of such. They are the most resistant to training, but often need it the most.

    I took an AK class recently with a local deputy sheriff. He was attending and paying for his own training because he is allowed to carry a patrol rifle in his car.

    I would consider some good optics if I were you. They make a huge difference in accuracy and speed of getting on target. Your adversary may have a hunting rifle, more powerful than a 5.56mm, and it may even have glass. Glass may help keep you from being seriously outgunned in a rifle on rifle scenario. It may cost a pretty penny, but it may also be what saves the day.

  6. #5
    Member Array MSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    414
    Get a good rifle. Get someone qualified to teach you. Train. And then, once you've built some confidence with it, carry.
    Maybe it's because I think from a military perspective, but I firmly believe any situation I'm likely to be shot in is a tactical situation, and having the option of short vs. long is a good option to have. It's one of those things that if you ever need it, you'll really need it. And, if you never need it, it'll be fun at the range.
    AlabamaConstitution of 1819: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and the state.
    The world doesn't owe you anything. It was here first.-Mark Twain
    "Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."-John Wayne
    Sig P228; Micro Desert Eagle; S&W M&P Compact .357 sig

  7. #6
    Moderator
    Array gasmitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    9,521
    I think you need a good AR-type carbine with a red-dot sight (Aimpoint or EOTech), with at least a half-dozen 30-round magazines at hand. One man against an ensconced defender isn't a winning scenario, but you'll at least be able to return suppressing fire and keep the BG's head down.

    I highly recommend Pat Rogers 'Carbine Operators Course' - 3 days of serious immersion in learning how to run the gun and fight with it. Check it out here: E.A.G. Tactical

    Also, read his comments on equipment selection if you do choose to get a carbine.
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florence, SC
    Posts
    7,939
    PM sent.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southeastern Pennsylvania
    Posts
    568
    Quote Originally Posted by AllAbtSlfDef View Post
    ...
    I'd suggest that you take a good hard look into the legalities of carrying a LG in a vehicle in PA. It's illegal to carry a loaded LG, and I don't know if there's an exemption, or exception for Constables. I'm not up to speed on the status of Constables, so you may be covered, but I just don't know.

  10. #9
    Member Array AllAbtSlfDef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    SW PA
    Posts
    398
    Unloved, I have asked many a leo and they said as long as you have a permit you can have a loaded lg or shotgun in your vehicle. I have not researched it myself but going by what they say as they are all very gun oriented and pro gun, I think I should be ok
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southeastern Pennsylvania
    Posts
    568
    Quote Originally Posted by AllAbtSlfDef View Post
    ...I have asked many a leo and they said as long as you have a permit you can have a loaded lg or shotgun in your vehicle.
    They're absolutely incorrect.

    I have not researched it myself but going by what they say as they are all very gun oriented and pro gun, I think I should be ok
    That's a dangerous assumption to make.




    18 Pa.C.S. 6106.1: Carrying loaded weapons other than firearms
    (a) General rule.-- Except as provided in Title 34 (relating to game), no person shall carry a loaded pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle, other than a firearm as defined in section 6102 (relating to definitions), in any vehicle. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons excepted from the requirement of a license to carry firearms under section 6106(b)(1), (2), (5) or (6) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) nor shall the provisions of this section be construed to permit persons to carry firearms in a vehicle where such conduct is prohibited by section 6106.
    For the purposes of 6106.1, shotguns that are not SBSs, and rifles that are not SBRs, are not firearms.

    18 Pa.C.S. 6102: Definitions
    "Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.
    I did find this:
    18 Pa.C.S. 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license
    (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
    (1) Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.
    which, coupled with this:
    18 Pa.C.S. 6106.1: Carrying loaded weapons other than firearms
    (a) General rule.-- Except as provided in Title 34 (relating to game), no person shall carry a loaded pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle, other than a firearm as defined in section 6102 (relating to definitions), in any vehicle. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons excepted from the requirement of a license to carry firearms under section 6106(b)(1)
    tells me that the exception does apply to Constables, however it has absolutely nothing to do with whether, or not, you hold a LTCF. The statute says the prohibition doesn't apply to Constables. That exception doesn't apply to me. I have a LTCF. It's still illegal for me to carry a loaded shotgun, or rifle, in a vehicle.

  12. #11
    VIP Member
    Array ppkheat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    3,969
    In this day and age....... ABSOLUTELY !
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  13. #12
    Member Array AllAbtSlfDef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    SW PA
    Posts
    398
    Thanks for the clarity on that unloved, I just found it myself, although if it is a SBS or SBR it is able to be carried. That may be the route to go if one wanted other options than a pistol for carry purposes. I don't know if the extra expense is worth it though. Thanks again.
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southeastern Pennsylvania
    Posts
    568
    Quote Originally Posted by AllAbtSlfDef View Post
    Thanks for the clarity on that unloved, I just found it myself, although if it is a SBS or SBR it is able to be carried. That may be the route to go if one wanted other options than a pistol for carry purposes. I don't know if the extra expense is worth it though. Thanks again.
    Sure thing. I wouldn't want to see you have any trouble.

  15. #14
    Member Array AllAbtSlfDef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    SW PA
    Posts
    398
    Trouble is the last thing I need. I am running this thread on another forum too. It has a lot of my fellow constables on it and the debate is kinda hot there. Do you know of any reknown schools for firearms in our lovely commonwealth,if so please pm and let me know, I don't want to stray from this topic on this thread. Thanks.
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  16. #15
    Member Array Ice Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    248
    I would not want to be pinned down by a nut with a 30-06 and only have a pistol to get me out. In your post, you said you work in the country. I am unsure if the use of high powered rifles is allowed in PA for big game hunting, but it is here in MN. High powered rifles are as common as flies in rural areas for deer hunting. The chances are high that MOST homes in a rural area have at least one. The power of these rifles is INCREDIBLE. The old school 30-30 and 30-06 are the most common and they can go all the way through a car and kill what is on the other side of it no problem. The 300 magnums, 7mm magnums, and .338 magnums are fairly common too and these things are nuts.

    Go get a rifle! A guy who has a weapon that can group leathal shots at 200yds vs a guy with a .40S&W that groups leathal shots at 20yds... who is gonna win? Go buy your AR!
    My GLOCK goes BANG every time!

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Patrol Rifle / Carbine Course - Charlottesville, Va. - March 27-28
    By Randy in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: February 25th, 2009, 11:39 PM
  2. Patrol Rifle / Carbine Course - Charlottesville, VA area, April 11-12
    By Randy in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: February 5th, 2008, 11:07 AM
  3. Patrol Rifle/Carbines
    By Superhouse 15 in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: October 3rd, 2007, 05:00 PM
  4. Patrol Rifle / Carbine Course - Lexington, Va.
    By Randy in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: August 8th, 2007, 03:03 PM
  5. Patrol Rifle Saves the day in Court House Shooting (Video)
    By cagueits in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: June 27th, 2007, 07:03 PM

Search tags for this page

do you have to patrol as a leo
,
la post patrol rifle
,

louisiana post patrol rifle course

,
louisiana post rifle patrol
,
patrol rifle calibers for glass
,

patrol rifle training in missouri

,
patrol rifle training in texas
,

patrol rifle training texas

,

sks as a patrol rifle

,
texas police carbine
,
texas police rifle course
,
training patrol rifle travis county texas
Click on a term to search for related topics.