Times are different??

This is a discussion on Times are different?? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am a new "poster" to this forum, but have been reading them for a while now. A few days ago I was pretty bored ...

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Thread: Times are different??

  1. #1
    Member Array Ximat1's Avatar
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    Times are different??

    I am a new "poster" to this forum, but have been reading them for a while now.

    A few days ago I was pretty bored and decided to go back to some previous posts. I started reading some of the threads from 2005-2006. It seems that attitudes were different back then.

    One of the thread I was reading talked about what to do if you were picknicking in a large park and noticed two to four masked or hooded individuals flanking the edges of the park and then approaching a family and apparently robbing or threating them in some way. A few people responded with tipping over picnic tables to get cover, another said hey would find cover behind a tree while his wife would flee to the vehicle to get the truck gun - a rifle or shotgun - and lay down cover fire while he got closer to take out the threats.

    In reading newer threads it seems that the only option people would take would be to flee in this situation, and most other situations seem to be "Only if the weapon or threat is pointed directly at you" would they draw.

    I guess the point of my post is to state/ask if times really have changed? While I understand that "laying down cover fire" in any situation is pretty far out there, it does seem that people are less likely to actually use their firearm unless they are actually shot at.

    What are others' input?

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  3. #2
    Member Array highlifee's Avatar
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    im new to cc. but in my opinion i would never pull my gun out unless needed to use it..i dont want any1 to know that i have 1 unless myself or my family are in danger. if thats the case u will not only see i have 1 u will hear it as well

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    Member Array HuttoAg96's Avatar
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    If someone was really being hurt and I could tell the good guy from the bad guy (you can't always do this) then I don't think I could, in good conscience, sit back and do nothing. I suspect most people are concerned with the legal and financial consequences (and personally, I am positively terrified a well).

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    My first obligation is to MY family. Get my wife to safety. That doesn't prevent me from calling 911 at the same time. 2 - 4 BG's is a lot to face on your own even armed. I would have to be a witness in this situation unless they come my way. Other situations I may intervene. They are all different.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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  6. #5
    Member Array PRSOrator's Avatar
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    Maybe people are more conscious of litigation and legal repercussions now?

  7. #6
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuttoAg96 View Post
    If someone was really being hurt and I could tell the good guy from the bad guy (you can't always do this) then I don't think I could, in good conscience, sit back and do nothing. I suspect most people are concerned with the legal and financial consequences (and personally, I am positively terrified a well).
    While I am not terrified, I am aware of the cost and will make sure that it's worth it and that I know who the players are.

    Most times you won't know what's happening and life isn't like the movies. Things happen fast. As far as taking a shot from a long distance, easy to say but much harder to do. Bear in mind, that bullet you fired has to go somewhere. You need to make sure that it doesn't stike the baby in the carriage two blocks down the street if you miss your intended target.

    Sometimes the good guy or gal can appear to be the bad actor. See what I'm saying about knowing who the players are? Let's say you see a guy sitting on another guys chest beating the holy ever loving crap out of the guy he's sitting on and bashing his head into the pavement.

    Is that the badguy, or is it the good guy that was able to turn the tables on the criminal actor and is now attempting to subdue the criminal to the point that he can safely retreat and summon the authorities?

    Just some food for thought. Take care and stay safe.

    Biker

  8. #7
    Member Array 9mm Lassiter's Avatar
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    My brother is a new army recruit and was asking me about situations. At this point, I have more training than he in firearms, including defensive handgun and low light tactical training. He'll soon pass me up if he gets the job he's going for though.

    Anyway, I told him I want to go home at the end of the day. That means not getting killed but also not going to jail. Yes, I carry a gun, but I also know the law and am careful to not cross the boundaries. My state does a pretty good job protecting people when they act in self-defense. So I can stay within the law with pretty good conscience and good safety.
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  9. #8
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Please post a link to the thread if not the specific post(s) you are citing.

    Things have not to my eye changed much at all here.
    By that I have to believe that either that/those specific posts were among the extreme minority, are being taken/stated out of context and/or were a joke of a posting (as again dependent on context).

    Reason being just think about it.

    Why would a rational thinking person send their wife to safety only to ask/encourage her to return into danger to participate in a potential public park _fire fight_.
    That in and of itself makes no rational nor lawful sense at all (!).
    When if she can make it to the truck then well so can you both, to escape and seek/locate safety/rescue (real cops!).
    No 'trunk gun' and fire fight ala 'cover fire' in a public park required.

    As well we all know that picnic tables are made of wood...And wood is very much generally not bullet resistant.
    So flipping tables over makes no rational sense at all, assuming that folks even have the physical ability to do such a thing (!).
    At best they would be concealment but even then every body knows tables are not normally found on their sides so that right there is a clue to the threats that hey some fool thinks that upended wooden table/bullet magnet is cover...Light it up!

    None of this makes any rational nor functional sense.
    So again by that considering most folks on this board who do actually post are most commonly reasonable and rational thinkers...I have to believe there is more to this than what you are either reporting or may have read as inpart rather than full.

    Regardless welcome to the board as a participant.

    Know that most often folks here post theories and potential solutions with a thought toward seriousness and plausibility...Rather than Batman style cartoon antics or gun ninja thoughts of amazing A-Team type feats.

    - Janq

    P.S. - Under only the most rare and outrageous of incidents would 'cover fire' even make any sense muchless be justifiable to any rational thinking persons eye (law enforcement, your state DA and a jury of your peers).
    Mogadishu techniques and tactics does not relate nor translate for civilians as at City Park, USA.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  10. #9
    Member Array Timezoneguy's Avatar
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    I agree times are much different. To pull a gun on someone regardless of whether you shoot or not is a big deal. For the most part I have decided ( in my mind not necessarly yours) what the paramaters are. First the bad guy must be close enough to do me harm. CCW instructor says about 21 feet with any weapon other than a gun. He can cover that much ground before you can successfuly respond. Second if he has a gun and it's deliberately pointed at me/wife I must assume he has an intent to do me great harm. No warning, no nothing, I will start shooting. Third the threat must feel so great that court/ legal action is not the issue at the time. Awareness of surroundings needs to come up a few notches. It's hard to watch everything every minute but certain places and circumstances warrant extra awareness. Remote or dark places, near ATMs over friendly folks, more than one guy, people doings things I would not do, are all flags. My CCW permit is in process. The bring it on attitude has no place when confronting others. I plan on being non-agressive and moving froms harms way, if possible, right up until my gun clears the holster.

  11. #10
    Member Array Ximat1's Avatar
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    This is one of the posts im referring to... This is the picnic one:

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...e-what-do.html

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    I recall that thread...And recall thinking same as I do now (above).
    That this is yet another made for TV type scenario that 99.99% of people in the US would never ever hear of muchless endure.

    As well my response then is same as now.

    Among the 'scenarios' area here you really have to be careful about what you read and how you digest the information both posited as a scenario as well as what is offered as a solution.
    There has been here everything from zombies (yes zombies like from B movies) to traveling packs of rabid dogs to TEOTWAWKI type choose your own adventure discussions.

    My own view of this specific are of the forum is that it is largely fictive discussion with rarely ever real world applicable discussion and lessons.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    What if it's zombies wearing hoods?
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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    Member Array 9mm Lassiter's Avatar
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    I don't plan on pulling my gun out unless I'd be willing to shoot. That does not mean I will necessarily shoot him, but the conditions had better warrant a potential shooting. In other words, I'm not going to pull out my gun and shoot in a less than lethal situation.
    On duty: Glock 21 SF (.45) w/ Safariland Cobra Tactical holster & Remington Hallow-points
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  15. #14
    Member Array Tbonedemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9mm Lassiter View Post
    I don't plan on pulling my gun out unless I'd be willing to shoot. That does not mean I will necessarily shoot him, but the conditions had better warrant a potential shooting. In other words, I'm not going to pull out my gun and shoot in a less than lethal situation.
    What if someone seems like they want to run you over w/a vehicle?

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    My words of 2006 remain the same today...
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