Question about Defense of the home by your kids

This is a discussion on Question about Defense of the home by your kids within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by JPCleary Coincidentally just received this story in an email, after reading this thread... BUTTE, MONTANA Preteen Shotgunner vs. Illegal Immigrant Home Invaders ...

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Thread: Question about Defense of the home by your kids

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPCleary View Post
    Coincidentally just received this story in an email, after reading this thread...

    BUTTE, MONTANA

    Preteen Shotgunner vs. Illegal Immigrant Home Invaders :
    Butte, Montana November 5 , 2009


    Two illegal immigrants, Ralphel Resindez, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26, probably believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11 year old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two-story home.

    It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in Montana and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine.

    Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12 gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.

    Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of buckshot from the 11-year-old's knee crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals.

    When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death before medical help could arrive.

    It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45 caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. That victim, 50-year-old David O'Burien, was not so lucky. He died from stab wounds to the chest.

    Ever wonder why good gun news never makes NBC , CBS , PBS , MSNBC , CNN, or ABC news........an 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her home, and herself......against two murderous, illegal immigrants......and she wins,
    She is still alive.

    Now that is Gun Control.
    +1000

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    I believe Cornered Cat's website has a very good article on her page about ow to introduce a child to firearms in a way that removes the mystery and teaches proper respect for firearms.

    Cornered Cat - Disarming Kids' Curiosity About Firearms

  4. #33
    Member Array bomber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Certainly, but it also depends greatly on the kid's maturity level too. Some kids would be fine at 10, others may have to wait until they are 50 (or never) before they are able to handle such situations.
    yeah, you really have to know your kid and what he/she can handle before you can answer that question

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    I have had loaded guns in the house for years. My children knew what they were, where they were, and to leave them alone. When they expressed an interest, they learned to shoot along with all the safety precautions that comes with it, they also learned how to make them safe, to tear them down and clean them, the whole ball of wax. I would not want to be a BG endangering either them or our home as they can both knock the eye out of a knat up to about 15 yards! We still enjoy shooting as one of out favorite things to do together. After Military Service and an LEO career, they both shoot almost as well as I, and they are gaining on me fast! When they do outshoot me, and they have done it a few times, they don't let me live it down. Of course it's all in fun, I know they'll improve as I get older, so my time is probably limited at the top of the pile! Which is probably the way it should be.
    Hiram25
    You can educate ignorance, you can't fix stupid
    Retired DE Trooper, SA XD40 SC, S&W 2" Airweight
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  6. #35
    Member Array Lumpy McSoo's Avatar
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    I have gone through many of these same thoughts.

    FIrst off, know your state laws. If a gun is not locked and secured in some states, you can and will be arrested, such as in Massachussettes, North East etc...

    Also, I may trust my son but what about their friends? I too also grew up with no gun locks or gun safes and was taught early on what to do or what not to do. Allowing access to a minor is a very delicate issue. What if it is your daughter and she was just physically assaulted? She is mad and pissed and comes home and grabs one of your guns and hunts down the bad guy. Now you are in trouble for letting them have access even though she should have known better.

    At this point, my decision is to keep everything locked up, especially handguns, until I really think I can trust my sons to do the correct thing. A hunting shotgun may be a different issue. What if my boys become some of the best junior IDPA or USPSA shooters? Well, there again lies the issues. If they snap while underage, it all goes back on the parents, more than likely. Some states it would be automatic and others my look at the circumstances.

    Wow, too much to think about now.

    Good Luck. I need luck in this matter as well.

    Later, Lumpy.

  7. #36
    Member Array glock45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cz2075bd View Post
    Children can learn to effectively use firearms:
    5 yr old boy demonstrating gun safety (on an airsoft): Sierra Point Five on Vimeo
    11 yr old girl kicking a$$ in training class: YouTube - McKenzie - 11yo Girl at Shooting Range #3 of #3

    It's all about proper training. Of course different children have different levels of maturity, responsibility, and impulsivity and that needs to be considered on a case-by-case basis.
    Jeez man! This little girl kicks some serious @ss! She also clears Jams and reloads without any trouble.....

    I also think a lot about what McSoo said. Kids are impulsive and sometimes irresponsible. A kid that gets beat up or assaulted in any way will be so angry and blinded by rage that could easily misuse a weapon if he/she has access....

    I just hope my 7 month old kid grows more responsible than I was when I was a teen. I did have access to my dad's guns... and I lived in a violent society. Weird, rage fueled ideas went through my mind more than once... Thank God, my Dad's words and lessons were stronger than those rage filled moments.

  8. #37
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    "Aim small... miss small." YouTube - Aim small, miss small from The Patriot
    The woods scene from The Patriot.

    My boy will know how to use them, and I'm a firm believer that in a gunfight you bring a gun, you bring all your friends with guns!
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  9. #38
    Member Array Vladimirx01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    I think that is something you and your wife should discuss...it doesn't matter what we think.

    ETA: If you and your wife are taken hostage.....he should beat feet to a neighbors house....
    Dead on man... as far as I'm concerned my wife and I are expendable when it comes to the life of my son. Not only that, my son showing up at the neighbor's house panicing about mommy and daddy and the BG... 911 call coming up methinks! I hate making that decision where my wife is concerned, but we've had this talk and agree, our boy's life trumps both of ours combined. Growing up an orphan may not be pleasant, but it is growing up, as opposed to being laid to rest.

    As to when and where my child will/would have the codes to my gun safe... really, it depends on the child. Comprehension of firearms safety and the fact that a gun is never never never a toy, and NEVER to treat it as such is one thing... but God knows I did some stupid stuff as a teenage because of peer pressure and "trying to be cool" (no, not playing with guns, fear of my parent's wrath prevented that). Those thoughts alone would cause me to hesitate on that score...
    The will to win is meaningless without the will to prepare! -- Joe Gibbs
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live. -- Douglas Adams
    What's the best gun to have in a gun fight? The one you have on you!

    P90DC, LCP, PT145, PT140, LCP, Rem 870 and so on and so on...

  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Hey Y'all: This argument can go on for pages and pages and never end. Personally I agree with bladenbullet. There are a lot more kids out there who have no sense of reality or a thought-process as complex as self defense in the home, gun use/safety and confronting slime adults with firearms then Patricia Harrington in Montana. I am almost certain that there have been more deaths of youngsters with firearms than deaths of perps by youngsters using firearms. God help you if you jump on this bandwagon to hell and your child comes out on the losing end of an firearm accident in the home or a firearm fatality due to confrontation with a slime.

  11. #40
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    another consideration with kids and guns is regardless of how well they are trained in gun safety there are still emotional and rational thought patterns that can be unpredictable...allowing a child to have access to guns without adult supervision (which would be requirted for them to have access in a home invasion scenario) runs the risk of the possibility the kid might make a bad decision under some sort of stress and do something that might not have been predicatble...

    lumpy's post says it well...a disgruntled teen could even make a poor decision in a jilted love situation....

    another post involved a kid making a firearm safe and pointing it at other kids as a warning from his own home...after reaching safety...kudos for making the gun safe...but you made a poor decision displaying the gun once you were safe...the ramifications of that even when you were a kid could have been bad for your parents....these are decisions kids cant be counted on to make responsibly regardless of what training you give them...

  12. #41
    Member Array twocan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL Vet View Post
    For me, this is well down the line from now. I have an infant right now, but I was just wondering what everyone's take is on allowing your kids the tools to defend the family in the event of a home invasion, etc.

    Basically, if I teach my son about weapons safety and the importance of respect for firearms as he grows up... but at the same time, I would have my weapons in a locked safe so that he does not get to them.

    However, in the event of an incident in the home where me and my wife are say, taken hostage or something... would you give your son the code to the safe so that he can get to the weapons and defend you from harm? At what age?

    Why or why not?
    Most definitely. You should teach your son all about gun safety, gun maintnance and operation. Explain how the "machine" that we call a gun, cannot fire itself, but careless handling can make it go off.

    In every case that I know, the youngster (son or daughter) who has been taught gun safety AND how the machine works is much more careful than many adults. This education will help him to survive a carless friend who "plays" with his Dad's gun.

    I would not have a safe. If your guns are for home self defense, but you keep them locked up, why bother? All that can happen is someone breaks in and steals them (after you unclock the safe under duress).

    As many people have said, your brain is the only safety required.

    You should use a code word with your wife and son as a warning to get to the "safe room" and defend themselves; not give your son a combination to the safe. There is no time for this kind of proceedure. The outcome of home invasions is determined in a very short period of time; don't waste it with wasted movements.

    If you teach your son about safety and lead by example, I am certain that he will be as safe as you are; and you now will have an asset in your self defense plan.

    Great that you are thinking ahead.

    Stay safe,

    Capt. Art

  13. #42
    Member Array twocan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    Firearm safety is important to teach, I have also noticed children that hunt tend to be more responsible with firearms.

    There have been a number of occasions when an armed child came to the defense of his family. There have also been many times, as we all know, that things go wrong.

    If the child is responsible, and it were my child, I would still feel uncomfortable with say a pistol. Something like a shotgun might be a better idea. Shotgun might be stored in a hidden case under the bed. I would have the shotgun locked in a case (maybe with just one number to move to unlock) and while loaded, it would not have one in the chamber.

    If my child had access to a firearm, in their room, friends would not be allowed in their room.

    My $.02.
    Thanis:

    A shotgun is much more powerful than a pistol.

    How is that safer?

    Capt. Art

  14. #43
    Member Array twocan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sledzep01 View Post
    Tough call. I agree with all of the training and responsibility statements above but I would still like to avoid having my son kill someone and have to live with that from a young age.
    BUT
    I would also like him to live till old age

    He is 11 now. I am really at decision time aren't I?

    Sled
    Sled:

    You are about 4 years past decision time.

  15. #44
    Member Array twocan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Very tough call to make. Monkey see, monkey do.

    The example the parents present in how they lead their lives on a daily basis is probably the biggest determining factor. If there's a solid family structure and expectations of personal responsibility practiced by the parents that the child observes consistently on a daily basis, then likely they will be able to handle responsibility sooner than other children.

    If the parents lead haphazard lives, with poor respect for each other and then all of a sudden you want to teach the child to be responsible with a firearm, there may be some problems there.

    I learned a lot from how my grandparents, my parents and other relatives lived structured, loving, responsible lives. We also had a few relatives who couldn't keep their act together for a weekend family get together or BBQ. A small kid can see the difference.

    There are kids who have shot intruders at age 11 or 12 and saved their mothers lives because they knew how to use their daddy's shotgun, or they had their own .22 rifle or they knew how to use a handgun and where daddy kept it.

    I think children are absolutely capable of defending the home if they are groomed and raised correctly from the beginning.

    But beware, as the parent it is your responsibility to be able to honestly and objectively evaluate their level of maturity and what level of responsibility the child can handle.

    JMHO, YMMV
    Right on, Bark'n!!!

  16. #45
    Member Array twocan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    Yep, the growing up culture thing has a great bearing (IMHO), it depends on the experience and maturity level of the child.

    Two related stories here:

    1. Several years ago, nearby, two out-of-town kids stopped at a house to ask to use the phone. At the time, the house was occupied by a young mother and her daughter (13ish) and her son (10ish) The young guy killed the mother on the front porch when she brought the portable phone outside for them to use.

    On hearing the shooting, the young daughter flew out the back door, running across a pasture to a nearby relatives house. She survived.

    The young son was found dead laying near his bed where he had obviously retrieved his BB gun in order to defend himself and his family. Really very very sad.

    2. In another instance, several years ago, we suddenly had a couple of wanted thugs loose in our area, and I mean pretty close. My son was about 15 at the time. He's very gun responsible, safe and a darned good marksman. I wanted to check on our elderly neighbors and stay diligent in our little community so I left my son with instructions to lock the doors, don't go outside, remain vigilent, watch outside for any strangers walking around, if anything doesn't look right call 911 (deputies nearby) and then call me on our private radios. I armed him with my Model 19, I knew he would be fine, cool as a cucumber, and did exactly what he was told.
    PPK:

    Sounds like you did a great job training your son.

    Maybe you should write a book about your methods and training.

    Capt. Art

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