Can you legally shoot AFTER a rape?

This is a discussion on Can you legally shoot AFTER a rape? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ZombieShoot I saw what you wrote but I just wanted to drive the point home because you seemed to be waffling: "WHo ...

Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 23456789 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 123

Thread: Can you legally shoot AFTER a rape?

  1. #76
    Member Array mirage2521's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NW FLA
    Posts
    232
    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieShoot View Post
    I saw what you wrote but I just wanted to drive the point home because you seemed to be waffling:

    "WHo said she was in a house? You are adding to the question information that was not provided.

    I re-read the OP and I guess she did say "take the gun out of dresser" so we can assume she was in her house. I was not arguing whether or not she could shoot, simply stating that "castle doctorine" does not apply if you are not in your house or car."

    I'm just following Winston Churchills advice: "If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. "



    Whose running whose trap too much again?

    Must have missed the part where I said it would be Stand Your Ground.

    You'll get over it......
    LOL....dude, you have never been on a debating team have you? My god you jump around. Pick a point and discuss it. Dang, it's like arguing with a woman or a teenager.
    You may now carry on with your absurd non-directional bantering.
    Yocan

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #77
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hastings, MN
    Posts
    600
    Two points:

    - The criteria for deadly force do not depend on whether the person's back is to you or not. In general, if you have a *reasonable* fear for your life or another's, you can fire. You don't have to try to apprehend, give a warning yell or warning shot. You just fire. In this case, a person who has already committed a violent felony against you and is still close enough to harm you again would meet the criteria. It isn't what he does after pulling his pants on or what he plans to do, it's whether your fear is reasonable.

    - Why did you shoot him in the back? Because that's the way he was when I was finally able to reach my gun. Next question, counselor.

    It would be a much different situation if he had left the house and you were able to lock the door behind him, but went out and shot him as he was leaving. Depending on the state, you may be in trouble.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  4. #78
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wichita Falls, Texas
    Posts
    1,618
    Quote Originally Posted by sigmanluke View Post
    I don't think there would be any legal problems with it. You don't know the threat is over.
    Exactly, the threat is still there, pull and fire away, legallities my arse, there are no legal matters to consider here period, he just committed a felony, he's toast and I'll sit on that jury if it would even get past the DA (which it wouldn't), not if he or she is smart it wouldn't.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  5. #79
    Member Array ZombieShoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    146
    Quote Originally Posted by mirage2521 View Post
    LOL....dude, you have never been on a debating team have you? My god you jump around. Pick a point and discuss it. Dang, it's like arguing with a woman or a teenager.
    Whatever....

    One of the hallmark of internet silliness is the old canard of "you have never been on a debating team" as the person using such a saying is usually at a loss for words. I look forward to your bragging about being a "national champion".......

    Like I said you'll get over it. One day.


  6. #80
    Member Array SigHawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Natural State
    Posts
    156
    Quote Originally Posted by reinhold View Post
    But when and if some low life scum invades my home with the intent to steal, rape, molest, or murder myself or my the family, all man made laws become moot. I am now your judge and jury, you will be guaranteed your right to a swift trial, and your punishment will be just. Self-preservation is instinctual, and it will trump any right you thought you had before you invaded my home.
    Well put Reinhold. 'nuff said.
    SigPro 2340
    Bersa Thunder Plus .380

  7. #81
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    If it were an armed robbery instead of a rape would your answer be different? Do you think a DA would see that any differently?

    Michael

  8. #82
    VIP Member
    Array tacman605's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arkansas/On the X in Afghanistan
    Posts
    3,031
    The armed robbery could be put in the same class of felony as the rape, again depending on your states statutes. The lethal force criteria that it would be judged by would be the same but once the suspect has committed the felony the threat is over unless he comes back to continue on with another felony. You cannot use the defense he was gonna, he might have, well most times a rapist does this.
    You have to read the statutes, and understand them, to determine how this would come out not just say "She could do this or that and be fine". In the law guys the way one person interprets one word can change the entire meaning of a statute.

    The outcome of this would depend on where in the US you live, the relationship between the suspect and victim, (not saying this in regards to the rape occuring but as to how lethal force statutes could or would be applied). the prosecutor, and your state law. Even in Florida, which I love their laws, all the lethal force statutes pretty much go out the window if the suspect, lived there, had been invited there and so on it would take a lot of investigation.
    It would be nice to say woman attacked, woman shoots bad guy, bad guy dies, story over but it would not play out like that. We can sit here and say we would, she could and so on but no one knows how the prosecutor, jury, media and so on would play this out and that is just on the criminal part.
    Unless your state, again like Florida, has a provision that the victim cannot be charged criminally or sued civilly after it is determined that deadly force is authorized then the victim could be in for the ride of her life. The OJ trial is the perfect example millions spent on defense, national tv coverage, not guilty in criminal trial, guilty and lost it all in civil court.
    With the family of poor Billy Bob on the local news "All he did was go there cause she heard some poor girl screaming to help her or she told him to come over and he was shot in the back without a weapon cause he was gonna break up with her to go into the priesthood" "This aint about money but the 2.5 million that the jury gave us sure will help with Billy Bob's 6 kids when they get out of jail".
    Not saying this would happen, common sense woud dictate it would be a simple investigation, yep scumbag raped her, she shot him, case closed but as it has been preached on here what law is based on common sense and lord knows you never, ever, ever know what a jury is gonna do.
    Just my opinion
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  9. #83
    Member Array mirage2521's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NW FLA
    Posts
    232
    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieShoot View Post
    Whatever....

    One of the hallmark of internet silliness is the old canard of "you have never been on a debating team" as the person using such a saying is usually at a loss for words. I look forward to your bragging about being a "national champion".......

    Like I said you'll get over it. One day.

    That's funny, I have never seen anyone say that before on the internet. How very strange. National Champion, no, but I was world champion in Mrs. Adam's 11grade English class for one semester. Does that count?

    As far as having nothing to say. I would gladly discuss any of the above subjects you would like to discuss if you will simply pick one and stay on point for the duration of the exchange without just randomly tossing out irrelavent facts.

    You know what I mean don't you? When someone points out a fact regarding one thing and like a petulant child someone else says "Oh yea, but this works" and thereby completely derailing the original discussion.

    Cheers

    As a wide man once said........I refer you to my signature line.
    You may now carry on with your absurd non-directional bantering.
    Yocan

  10. #84
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    26,138
    Quote Originally Posted by reinhold View Post
    But when and if some low life scum invades my home with the intent to steal, rape, molest, or murder myself or my the family, all man made laws become moot. I am now your judge and jury, you will be guaranteed your right to a swift trial, and your punishment will be just. Self-preservation is instinctual, and it will trump any right you thought you had before you invaded my home.
    The intent may not be what you think it was. And the laws in your state might hold your "right" to inflict punishment on the fly to be less than you think it is. Laws have a way of sticking around irrespective of whether you think they should be "moot."

    In short: if you act like the judge, jury and executioner, then you might well find how legally insupportable that is in your community.

    Self-preservation is instinctual, on the instant of attack, sure. But, we live in a society where the rule of law limits our actions. Being instinctual outside of the bounds of the law might well result in the law having its day.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #85
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    2,347
    Quote Originally Posted by mirage2521 View Post
    In Florida that is EXACTLY what it means. That is the whole point of our castle doctrine law...Pretty simple and straight forward, if you are in my house unlawfully, I can shoot you. That sure makes the burglarly of an occupied dwelling a real bad idea. If you are drunk and bust in thinking it is your house, i can shoot you. We already have case law on this one.
    Way off. The "whole point" of the castle doctrine is not that you can shoot anyone in your home. There are far more qualifiers then it is in your home.

    In addition, you are really missing the point that may if not most rapes do not involve an unlawful entry until after the fact (rape). Even if "unlawful" you have to show it was "unlawful." So theoretically you would have to show the dead rapist is guilty of rape beyond a reasonable doubt (at the very least at the preponderance of the evidence) before you could assert the defense (and there are many different subtleties with each jurisdiction). Think about it, in order for the state to punish a criminal it has to make the case "beyond a reasonable doubt." You assumption is that the alleged victim is held to a lower standard then the state. And again, what was her state of mind (was she drinking). With the facts provided in the OP, it is in no way open and shut. Whould she be morally justified, sure. Now she may very well need to prove it in court (not must or most likely will, but may).

    You make many assumptions, for example the rape will leave evidence beyond a normal sex act (many don't) and that the rapist will be a stranger (most are not).

    As I stated, with all SD shootings, there is a potential of complications, and since you are also asserting a rape (and if there was one, you would be foolish not to state it), you are calling into question the reason for SD. If you can't prove the rape, you may have just thrown away your 5th, and underminded your defense. Then, in addition, if you can prove it was a rape, depending on the jurisdiction, the fact you reacted to the rape, and not a fear of death, or retreat, may hinder your defense.

    Real world, most likely dead rapist and a woman who must put together the pieces of her life. Then again, if she landed in jail, she would not be the first woman assaulted that ended up in jail for what was considered revenge.
    NRA Member
    S&W 642 (no-lock) with .38 Spl +P 135 GR Gold GDHP
    Glock G31 & G33 with .357 Sig 125 GR. SXT Winchester Ranger

  12. #86
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    926
    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    What says the BG wouldn't plan on killing her after he committed the rape?
    Yes, I concur. She would still be in grave danger as the BG might not want to leave a living witness.


    -
    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

  13. #87
    VIP Member
    Array tacman605's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arkansas/On the X in Afghanistan
    Posts
    3,031
    Thanis good points.

    Chevy-SS hate to disagree but she could not assume what he would do with might, he could of, he would of, last time this happened the guy did this.....

    It is all about what physical act he is doing at that actual moment. In the OP the rape has occured, the suspect has gotten up and turned around, the victim has armed herself and shoots the suspect in the back.
    The criteria for the threat is not there the crime is done, over with, no longer doing anything unless your state law says different.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  14. #88
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,618
    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieShoot View Post
    A good lawyer could probably get anything she said squashed since she was "tramatized" (spelling....).
    If that was true anything anyone said after a shooting would be regarded as irrelevant as every sane human is traumatized after killing a human being. Any good lawyer will say the same thing keep your pie hole shut what you say is the hardest obstacle they have to over come. Facts and evidence are subjective open to interpretation. What you say will put a rope around your neck. After a shooting any shooting the only words to come out of your mouth should I was in fear of my life they were going kill me I want to talk to my lawyer. Ask any lawyer worth his fee.

    If you say anything else let me know what prison you are in I will send you stamps. Laughing at you as I remind you I told you so. This is basic gun carry 101 that you seem to think otherwise says a lot about your experience and knowledge.

    "Anything you say WILL be used against you in a court of law" miranda
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  15. #89
    Member Array ZombieShoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    146
    Quote Originally Posted by mirage2521 View Post
    That's funny, I have never seen anyone say that before on the internet. How very strange. National Champion, no, but I was world champion in Mrs. Adam's 11grade English class for one semester. Does that count?

    As far as having nothing to say. I would gladly discuss any of the above subjects you would like to discuss if you will simply pick one and stay on point for the duration of the exchange without just randomly tossing out irrelavent facts.

    You know what I mean don't you? When someone points out a fact regarding one thing and like a petulant child someone else says "Oh yea, but this works" and thereby completely derailing the original discussion.

    Cheers

    As a wide man once said........I refer you to my signature line.


    If you cry any harder you'll be able to supply the worlds fresh water needs for the next 100 years.


  16. #90
    Member Array ZombieShoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    146
    That's why I said good lawyer and probably. Probably as you should know doesn't mean it's going to happen.

    And I don't need stamps sent to me. I understand just fine how all shootings have to be investigated and how the actions of the shooter will be looked at.

    And after a shooting I don't ask for a lawyer. I ask for a PBA lawyer. Yeah see I got plenty of firearms and legal training. On top of that the PBA tells us exactly what to do on or off duty.

    But thanks for the laugh......

Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 23456789 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Is there public land in NY where I can legally shoot or "plink"?
    By stuckInNy in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: November 19th, 2009, 05:55 PM
  2. Am I legally obligated?
    By Ram Rod in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: December 24th, 2008, 12:19 AM
  3. How Long Have You CC'd Legally?
    By NCHornet in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 64
    Last Post: February 5th, 2008, 11:45 AM
  4. Legally exempted?
    By soundwave in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: October 13th, 2006, 09:13 PM
  5. I can legally carry.....
    By Wingman in forum New Members Introduce Yourself
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: February 28th, 2006, 10:32 PM

Search tags for this page

can i shoot someone committing rape
,
can you shoot a rapist
,
can you shoot a would be attacker in south carolina
,
deadly force rape
,
in the state of fl. is rape just cause to shoot someone
,
shoot attacker in back
,
should you shoot someone who is about to rape you?
,
when can i legally shoot someone
,
when can you legally kill someone
,

when can you legally shoot someone

,
when can you legally shoot someone in utah
,
when to shoot
Click on a term to search for related topics.