Why did this guy get arrested for shooting?

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Thread: Why did this guy get arrested for shooting?

  1. #1
    Member Array lionassad's Avatar
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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Not enough information from the article to determine why he was arrested for, by appearances, a self-defense shooting. Maybe there is something in the investigation that caused them to question his side of the story based on the forensic evidence...
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    Member Array MSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    Not enough information from the article to determine why he was arrested for, by appearances, a self-defense shooting. Maybe there is something in the investigation that caused them to question his side of the story based on the forensic evidence...
    Yea. This article is pretty vague.
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    Not really enough info to say why he was arrested. I can see where if the person shot was not armed, the question of justification could come up.
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    Simply going by the story, it appears the bailiff and his two colleagues had the BG outnumbered 3:1, there is no mention of the BG being armed, so killing him for simple assault would not be justified. Would you kill someone if they stomped on your big toe?
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    Its never a good thing when you shoot an unarm person, when you do, the tsunami begins.

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    Not a lot of info to go by, maybe because he was unarmed dont know but remember in regards to the bad guy his size, training vs your size and training can come into play even though he may be unarmed and if the difference is determined to be great enough deadly force could be authorized.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    "Arrested" doesn't mean "charged" or "indicted". It may not have been clear enough to just let him go, and due to circumstances of victim being unarmed there was suspicion of a possible crime - enough to "detain" him;

    They have him for a bit of time to look further and see what's what and the DA can decide how to proceed. It's his call.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionassad View Post
    Why did this guy get arrested for shooting?
    ... he shot the man after the man lunged at him.

    "... someone allegedly charged the bailiff, who fired one shot," Roach said.

    No statute is named or identified, and it's not said he was charged even, but I would say: there is a strong tendency toward an initial presumption of guilt for the one left standing, particularly if it's not patently clear that a deadly threat was presented and being defended against.

    If we go by the A.O.J. criteria, the person lunging in this scenario needs to:
    1. Have the actual ability to strike deadly blows and put the innocent at legitimate risk of death or crippling injury (not obviously so);
    2. Have the opportunity to strike (yes, as he was right there); and
    3. Actually place the innocent person in jeopardy of death or crippling injury (no).


    That would be my guess as to why he was seriously questioned, at minimum, and apparently arrested. Uncertain what the charge was, as that wasn't specified in the story.

    There's a lesson in this. Lunges don't justify a death sentence. Coming out of the shadows doesn't justify a death sentence. Having hands placed on you doesn't justify a death sentence. Being startled big-time doesn't qualify either.

    By the sounds of it, he knew he was an "authority" type person on legitimate business; he knew the person lunging was making a less-than-civil greeting; and he was apparently angered and/or startled sufficiently by that to shoot the man for having done it.

    Had it been known for a fact the man was an armed felon, then shooting in that same situation would be clearly justified, I think. But none of that is either implied or stated by the report. Uncertain what the guy knew, thought or saw, before he considered firing.

    Perhaps we'll have more detail when another few stories come out.
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    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    There's a lesson in this. Lunges don't justify a death sentence.
    I have a question about this: I have various medical conditions and I am older. I could not survive without grave injury blows that others might withstand. I also can't run away very fast or for long at all. So, what about a physical attack that you have reasonable belief is about to occur? What should folks like myself do?

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    Member Array centermass's Avatar
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    I don't know. I've heard of a couple of 1 punch deaths within the last couple of years. Use of force doesn't always have to include a weapon. Alot of the time it's stated that use of deadly force is justified when someone intends to inflict death or serious bodily injury. Hard to say. The law is a little unclear sometimes.


    If it was me, I would have told the cops that the guy told me he was going to beat me to death and I didn't have any reason not to believe him. Dead guys don't argue.
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    Hamlet your size, condition, abilities and so on can be a factor in a SD scenario. Lets say you are attacked by some guy who is larger and younger you are in true fear for your life, he has no weapon but simply due to his size he could/would due you grave bodily harm. You would be justified in using deadly force against him. Depending on where the incident occurs you may or may not have the obligation to retreat first, well you may not be able to so that would also play a key role.
    Unarmed does not always mean not deadly.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    ...Would you kill someone if they stomped on your big toe?
    Hang around here long enough and you'll find plenty of people who say they would.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet View Post
    I have a question about this: I have various medical conditions and I am older. I could not survive without grave injury blows that others might withstand. I also can't run away very fast or for long at all. So, what about a physical attack that you have reasonable belief is about to occur? What should folks like myself do?
    I'm folks like yourself, in that sense. Chronic medical issues and aging "infrastructure," here. Numbers of thugs against you, age or physical/medical issues can make a world of difference in a person's actual ability to withstand a violent attack. Speak with your attorney and check into your state's legal understanding of the concept of "disparity of force."

    Each case is a test case, more or less, since each person and situation is different. One punch can do it, as can your falling against the concrete of the sidewalk when punched or kicked. (That happened just in the past couple of weeks, reported in the news.)

    Suffice to say that how far you're able to be pressed before succumbing to attack will differ from me or the next person. Disparity of force is the concept that recognizes some factors might put a person well behind the curve from the outset, such as numbers of people against you, size/strength of the person against you, age or infirmities you might have, etc.

    I'm no attorney. Am assuming you have an attorney who is competent in your state's use of force, self-defense and firearms statutes. It would probably be best to get comfortable with the answer from that point of view, as that should provide a better perspective as to how much it would matter if it comes to a court situation with your having to explain things about how "quickly" or "violently" you responded to an attack.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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