This is a discussion on He called it, "taking control of the situation" within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Janq That the OP recalls the details of what happened leading up to the story but cannot recall the resolution gives me ...
I HATE guns being pointed at me carelessly, or any other way as far as that goes. I let the person know about it at the time, they can tell because my ducking or dodging prefaces my upcoming complaint.
I sure like shooting right out on my own property.
Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.
Ever since I read the story of a mother committing a murder/suicide (murder was her son) at a FL indoor range about a year and a half ago, I've changed what I take with me to the range. There is always one carry gun removed from my practice rotation which I carry concealed for the trip - it is not the same one every time, thus allowing practice with all guns I plan to carry.
Glock 19, 26 & 36 | Kahr K9 & PM9 | S&W M&P9c, 642 & 640 | Ruger LCP
I think the story as related is odd in whole.
What you have available to re-tell as told third person may itself have been less or more than actual.
To that I can't but wonder where is the rest and why is it unknown/untold.
Kind of like when a person tells tale of catching a whopper fish as it was told to them by another, only to when asked dang man what kind of lure did he use! or so when you pulled him into the boat what did he wind up weighing out to...The storyteller ends up with a blank face expression.
We've all been there and we've all at least once have been that guy as related to telling the tale of another as told to us.
Exactly as you stated I don't know you personally and can only go by what is stated on this darn internets.
From that I cannot make any judgment, only at best an assessment.
No disrespect intended toward you personally/directly at all.
If you can/could, maybe ask your friend to fill you in on the rest of the story...The part where the fish gets pulled into the boat and it's a whopper!
We'd like to know what lure he used and all the other juicy details, so that we can maybe learn some bit of a lesson and become better fishermen if even by proxy of the internet.
indoor public range and found myself sharing a tight space with no RO in a lane against a far wall among a group of persons clearly shooting together who were not if you get my drift...The type that I would want to stand at a bus stop with never mind in a big secluded room. All kinds of sketchy and my spidey sense was going off like old school glass blinky Chirstmas lights.
I've carried on body when at a public range ever since, and that was like 12 yrs. ago.
Recall the pastor who was robbed & killed last year at a public range. : \
No one is doubting the OP, at least not I, as he was not present and is merely relating a story which was told to him by a good friend.
Nothing wrong with that at all. However, when a situation is related via a third party, maximum benefit of the learning experience can only be gleaned with as complete an account as feasible.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
Would changing his phrasing for "stop shooting" changed the way that knuckle head acted? NO! Telling him some one is down range obviously wouldn't make a difference b/c he ended up pointing a gun a some one anyway! A ceasefire is a basic safety function of the range. If you don't know that then you (he) shouldn't be at the range.
You're missing the point and logic. Yelling "cease fire" or "stopping shooting" is a command and some people have huge complexes when it comes to being ordered around. "Someone's downrange" is an explanation as to why someone should stop shooting that anyone can comprehend. Apparently anyone but you. For the record, I'm an RSO. Maybe you think you can draw your weapon in less time than someone can pull a trigger - I know I can't and I'd rather use my noggin for something other than a hat rack. What about the people behind the two involved in the confrontation? People generally are standing in a line along the firing line. There would be a huge possibility of any errant shots or pass-throughs from either party hitting bystanders.
When most people turn to address/confront another, whatever is in their hands stay in their hands - human nature. In this case it was extremely stupid, but a natural act.
You should spend more time studying human nature.
So you're saying submit to a guy pointing a loaded weapon at you? No thanks.
No. I'm saying use your freakin' brain and pick your opportunities to render the idiot harmless.
"A contest" are you kidding? wow.
If you're gonna quote me, do it right. I said a "chest pounding contest" which is exactly what it was - two guys staring each other down and no one pulling the trigger even though one had every reason in the world to, but didn't. He took a huge gamble drawing on a drawn gun and yet another not putting the idiot down and I'm glad it worked out for him, but not something I'm gonna do - not without some sort of distraction or at least trying to talk my out of it first.
nedrgr21: The 'what' is a "I don't understand what you are trying to say here." or "I don't see how this relates, please explain." Sorry for the misunderstanding there.
I cannot believe that any one on this forum is actually justifying what that idiot did. That's what it reads like. You are saying it's not his fault b/c he doesn't like being ordered around. Unbelievable
I don't care what your "complexes" are. That is no excuse to put the life of some one else in danger. This is beyond ridiculous. (You're an RSO?)
I see the point people were making with "if he was going to draw he should have shot" But I obviously don't understand the above logic. I am just so bewildered right now I can't think of what to say.
"talk your way out of it" ? He's aggressive and pointing a gun at you. How much longer are you willing to wait before he shoots you?
and not that is matters: you didn't originally call it a "chest pounding contest." You edited it.
As to the "what" comment:
When one person starts a conversation with another, the person addressed will usually turn to the other so they're face to face - it's the polite thing to do.
When people are first learning to drive, when someone starts a conversation with the driver, they often revert back to old habits and turn to the person talking and take their eyes off the road. Not only that but they will also tend to steer in the direction of the other person. You can also observe people drifting into the lane they want to occupy as they check for other cars - their head and neck turns and shoulders/arms follow. Not smart in that situation, but a natural tendency that needs to be corrected when driving. Beginning shooters also do this with their firearms. They have the gun pointed downrange, but when the instructor speaks to them from behind, they tend to turn, gun in hand, towards the instructor. So, yes, when people turn (head and/or body) to address another, their hands (and what's in them) follow.
As to the other stuff.
No, no, no and no. You really need to take a breath and work on your reading comprehension.
I have never posted anything supporting or justifying copping an attitude about someone calling a cease fire. I'm the strictest one at the range I work at regarding that.
I have never posted anything supporting the guy pointing a gun at your friend for any reason.
I have never posted anything about me having a complex about anything.
I have never posted anything about making an excuse to put someone's life in danger.
I don't get how you concluded any of that from my posts and dare you to demonstrate that I did.
You are right, I did edit my post because the word I used was *'ed out (oops), but saying that I strictly said "contest" with no adjectives puts my words in a whole different light.
If he didn't pull the trigger right away, he most likely wouldn't - he was posturing. Use your noggin. Would he really shoot an innocent person in front of a number of people who he knew were armed? The guy's gun is drawn and pointed at him. Now your friend has a choice: escalate the situation by drawing another gun or try to de-escalate the situation by using words. It would take 2 secs to explain why the cease fire was called and your friend would still have the option to draw and fire. Your friend drew a gun which was making a losing bet (speed of his draw vs. speed of other guy pulling trigger) with his life and those around him (people are lined up with each other on the firing line - someone will definitely get hit, even if it's not your friend). He made yet another losing bet by not firing immediately. He was damn lucky he didn't get himself or a bystander shot or killed.
Do you really not get this?
If your buddy really felt his life was in danger, enough to pull a gun, why in the world weren't the cops called?
My first thought was that he should have shot the guy. Then after reading posts, my thinking went towards the fact that all the other people on the range might not be aware of what was going on, heard a shot and been at the ready to shoot your friend. But that would be pretty extreme.
I think the friend handled it fairly well except that he should have probably pulled the trigger if he pulled the gun. Pulling the gun and not pulling the trigger put himself in danger more IMHO
I dont feel 100% on the "if he drew he should have shot" argument. Police draw and do not fire often. Are they wrong? As has been stated we do not have, nor do we have access to all the facts. The guy could have been an LEO or retired. The guy could have seen that all it would take is a visual wake up call for the other dude. I get that if you feel threatened enough to draw you should fire, but shooting is the last step. All it took was for the guy to draw down on the man and noone got shot.
Ahhh geez.... someone practicing his "thug skillz"
I'm always aware of who is shooting at the range with me.... indoor and/or outdoor. If I see something that looks off or not quite right... I skidattle on out of there. I once saw a guy talking to himself..... in an angry voice.... I packed up and left and on the way out told the guy manning the range counter that he might want to keep an eye on the guy.
Firearms and wackadoodles just don't mix... best to hightail it
Man making an implied threat, pointing a gun at you..... let's see............
besides taking a sledge hammer to his Glock .. afterwards ???
Yep, think I would have done what your buddy did.
Anytime someone points a loaded gun at me in an aggressive manner my gun is coming out.