I'm smarter than I was this morning - Camel Light is poor self defense

This is a discussion on I'm smarter than I was this morning - Camel Light is poor self defense within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; But I'm replaying the scene and I'm irratated with myself, a tiny bit rattled and figuring out just how many lessons came out of today. ...

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Thread: I'm smarter than I was this morning - Camel Light is poor self defense

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    Distinguished Member Array svgheartland's Avatar
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    I'm smarter than I was this morning - Camel Light is poor self defense

    But I'm replaying the scene and I'm irratated with myself, a tiny bit rattled and figuring out just how many lessons came out of today.

    It's a cool day in NC, long sleeve weather. I was at the loading bench earlier today and my wife said she was going to run errands and did I want to come? Not really but "sure, why not", with a smile. Lock up, get in the truck and oh yeah, forgot the snubby. Well, we're heading to Roxboro and nothing happens there. It's not like we're going to Durham; Everything happens there.

    Stop at the John Deere place for parts. Stop a Lowes for....stuff... that I have to install, build, repair, etc. Stop at Food Lion and I say "I'll wait in the truck". She heads in.

    I'm sitting behind the wheel, window down, radio on, having a smoke (yeah...I know, don't say it, I'll quit someday). Here comes a guy across the parking lot. Half zipped hoody with long floppy sleeves, the hood is not up. Long hair in braids, pulled back kind of. Long and tall and lanky and oh.....maybe it's a woman. Whatever. But he/she is getting closer and makes a sort of gentle turn and is heading towards me. 20' and closing and I realize that not only can I not see any hands in these long floppy sleeves, but it very definitely looks like there's something extended in the right hand (inside the sleeve). All I've got is a cigarette that I prepare for flipping out the window (figuring in the face) because I have no time for any other reaction and it's the best I can do. Next step I'm guessing is to fling the door open while he figures out if his face is burning. "It" comes to the window of the truck and ask for "a quarter, or maybe a dollar" in a very feminine, manly voice. OK. it's a man with some challenges in life. Then the hand comes out of the sleeve. This guy has the hands of a basketball player and all I was seeing was his hand and fingers extened straight forward but hidden by the sleeve. No weapon, but his hands were as long as my feet. My mistake but an easy one to make.

    For lack of anything else....I put out the cigarette, gave him a buck and then he asked for a smoke AND a quarter again "if I had it". At this point I wigged a little bit and gave him hell and sent him off walking again. I didn't even have the presence of mind to tell him to keep his hands showing if he was going to present himself to strangers in that manner.

    So in the Big Book of Good and Bad....this was bad. I left home without it. I was unprepared. I read the situation but I was inaccurate. I doubt that I would have drawn on him but would have been armed, arms folded, 38 under my left arm, held in right hand. I 'think'. I had very little time to act properly or improperly but it didn't matter because I couldn't do either.

    I don't live a paranoid existance and I couldn't tolerate being wired that way. I don't live in a code red condition 24/7. I maintain SA, and I'm not casual about carrying (except maybe today). But this one was on me and I didn't do well IMO.

    Be careful....even in your own version of Roxboro or Mayberry or wherever "nothing ever happens".
    Savage Heartland

    What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?

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    Sounds like a great drill for "real life".............lesson's learned.

    You never know......when, where, why, who, or what? Though, I think you had all of them today.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    Distinguished Member Array svgheartland's Avatar
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    ppkheat...thanks. I needed the laugh. Yeah, it was colorful. But if you own 10 umbrellas and get caught in the rain, who can you blame? Same thing here....I was almost caught in the rain.
    Savage Heartland

    What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?

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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Happy everything worked out ok! Stay Safe.
    Hiram25
    You can educate ignorance, you can't fix stupid
    Retired DE Trooper, SA XD40 SC, S&W 2" Airweight
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    Senior Member Array CowboyColby's Avatar
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    Glad it worked out ok for you and that you had the presence of mind to go through your mind what you would do if were attacked. i.e.cigarette to face, door to body type thinking.

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    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    I would be very careful when giving someone like that any money. If I read that correctly, he was standing outside your truck, with the window down, and you were within his reach. When you went to give him that dollar, did you look to see what you were doing? I'm assuming you took your eyes off him to see what you were reaching for... at that moment he could have pulled something out (knife/gun) or just punched you in the head, ripped the wallet (if you were retrieving a dollar from it) out of your hand, or opened the door and yanked you out.

    This is why I never give money to bums. I don't need to be distracted around them.

    Just my $.02. I'm sure you've already thought all that out though. lol

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    Distinguished Member Array svgheartland's Avatar
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    Blueninja you make a good point. I didn't take my eyes off since I only had a few bills in the front pocket (sadly all ones). And I normally don't hand out either but I think my brain took a side trip on me. But point very well taken.

    And I think that that's part of my point to the whole thing. You may believe that you know how it'll play out....but you may be wrong. So forethought and preparation must be on your side or you end up weak at a critical time. I give myself poor grades today.
    Savage Heartland

    What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?

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    Well, you were definitely "Owned" in that situation. No doubt about it. Your wife wouldn't be the first one to come out of a store to find a dead husband laying in the parking lot.

    Now, what exactly do you mean by living a paranoid existence? I would say, being a little more prepared than what you were isn't being paranoid.

    Also, no one can live in a condition red state of alertness 24/7. It is very taxing on the body to be in a condition red state of alertness for any extended period of time.

    It sounds like you got a wake up call. How you deal with that experience is going to be the determining factor.

    Hopefully you can figure out where the line is between being adequately prepared to handle a sudden situation and being paranoid.

    As ppkheat pointed out...
    You never know......when, where, why, who, or what?
    You may not get another trial run next time.

    I'm very glad it turned out okay. I hate to see bad things happening to good people.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    I can kind of understand your reasoning. I've been to Roxboro a few times. Nice place, but it was out of out way for work and a real hassle when all your other deliveries are in Raleigh. It's a battle that I have fought. I finally decided the best thing was to carry as much as possible, home, mom's, getting mail, mowing grass, etc. It got me used to carrying and I rarely go without it, except at work.

    But bear in mind you are about 20 minutes north of the armpit of NC. The critters surely make their way up there to cause trouble.

    Glad it was a non issue and you learned from it.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"

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    Senior Member Array Bob O's Avatar
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    That was a warning...
    You got a pass this time - maybe not next time!

    Lesson: Be armed 24/7/365!!!!!!!!!!

    Bobo
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"
    ~John Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by svgheartland View Post
    Blueninja you make a good point. I didn't take my eyes off since I only had a few bills in the front pocket (sadly all ones). And I normally don't hand out either but I think my brain took a side trip on me. But point very well taken.

    And I think that that's part of my point to the whole thing. You may believe that you know how it'll play out....but you may be wrong. So forethought and preparation must be on your side or you end up weak at a critical time. I give myself poor grades today.
    ^^^^^^^^I think you did about 55-65% or so, neglecting to bring pistola with you being the gravest fault.
    You came up with SOMETHING in mind to react with if things went south.

    Also^^^^^^^^^^what Bark'n said^^^^^^^^

    AND Bob O,,,,24/7/365

    as much as possible.
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

    Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!

    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn

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    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by svgheartland View Post
    But I'm replaying the scene and I'm irratated with myself, a tiny bit rattled(Just a tiny bit rattled? I would think much more than a tiny bit based on the errors of your ways.) and figuring out just how many lessons came out of today (Numerous...have you counted them up yet?).

    It's a cool day in NC, long sleeve weather. I was at the loading bench earlier today and my wife said she was going to run errands and did I want to come? Not really but "sure, why not", with a smile (Great that you accompanied wife.). Lock up, get in the truck and oh yeah, forgot the snubby (At that point, an immediate about face, return to the house, obtain EDC. NOW you're ready to go with wife.). Well, we're heading to Roxboro and nothing happens there (Anytime, anywhere, to anyone. ALWAYS remember that.). It's not like we're going to Durham (Rationalizing does not protect you and yours.); Everything happens there.

    (Totally UNARMED)Stop at the John Deere place for parts. Stop a Lowes for....stuff... that I have to install, build, repair, etc. Stop at Food Lion and I say "I'll wait in the truck". She heads in.

    I'm sitting behind the wheel, window down, radio on, having a smoke (yeah...I know, don't say it, I'll quit someday). Here comes a guy across the parking lot. Half zipped hoody with long floppy sleeves, the hood is not up. Long hair in braids, pulled back kind of. Long and tall and lanky and oh.....maybe it's a woman. Whatever. But he/she is getting closer and makes a sort of gentle turn and is heading towards me. 20' and closing (at that point your window should be going up, especially since you are unarmed, and a potential VERBAL warning to STOP!) and I realize that not only can I not see any hands in these long floppy sleeves, but it very definitely looks like there's something extended in the right hand (inside the sleeve). All I've got is a cigarette that I prepare for flipping out the window (figuring in the face) because I have no time for any other reaction and it's the best I can do (perhaps a pepper spray in the truck could be considered). Next step I'm guessing is to fling the door open while he figures out if his face is burning (if he is armed with either gun or knife, what good are you doing by throwing open your door and exposing yourself or perhaps also exiting the vehicle?). "It" comes to the window of the truck and ask for "a quarter, or maybe a dollar" in a very feminine, manly voice. OK. it's a man with some challenges in life. Then the hand comes out of the sleeve. This guy has the hands of a basketball player and all I was seeing was his hand and fingers extened straight forward but hidden by the sleeve. No weapon, but his hands were as long as my feet. My mistake but an easy one to make. Male or female, regardless of appearance, voice, etc. should NOT be in your zone at a point where they can lay hands or worse on you.

    For lack of anything else....I put out the cigarette, gave him a buck and then he asked for a smoke AND a quarter again "if I had it". At this point I wigged a little bit and gave him hell and sent him off walking again. I didn't even have the presence of mind to tell him to keep his hands showing if he was going to present himself to strangers in that manner. I am absolutely dumbfounded at all that has gone down. What would you have done if your wife had returned during this encounter?

    So in the Big Book of Good and Bad....this was bad (Your most accurate observation at this point.). I left home without it (Lesson learned). I was unprepared (Totally). I read the situation but I was inaccurate (Very). I doubt that I would have drawn on him but would have been armed, arms folded, 38 under my left arm, held in right hand. I 'think' (You THINK? I encourage you to play these scenarios out in your mind, read the various scenarios on this forum, and decide ahead of time what your reaction will be. There is no room for an "I think" when your life or the life of a loved one might possibly be in the balance.). I had very little time to act properly or improperly but it didn't matter because I couldn't do either (You had the time, you were NOT prepared to do either. TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN) .

    I don't live a paranoid existance and I couldn't tolerate being wired that way. I don't live in a code red condition 24/7. I maintain SA, and I'm not casual about carrying (except maybe today). But this one was on me and I didn't do well IMO.

    Be careful....even in your own version of Roxboro or Mayberry or wherever "nothing ever happens". I sincerely hope you evaluate this total experience and revamp your priorities in carrying and accepting the responsibility of being prepared.)
    My responses are in BOLD above. I am happy that nothing bad happened and am sure that you will use this as a stepping stone to learning and preparedness. Glad you and the wife are both okay.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

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    AzB
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNinjaGo View Post

    This is why I never give money to bums. I don't need to be distracted around them.
    I learned my lesson traveling around the world. There are places where if you give one bum a dollar, you will suddenly be surrounded by dozens of bums all wanting a dollar, and they can be quite aggressive.

    Also, it encourages them. There are some people that make their living by begging. I saw a news report that showed a man that begged every day and drove a nicer car than me.

    I always tell them I have nothing to give and to move along.

    Not to sound like a hardass... I also volunteer at the Salvation Army on a regular basis and of course give to the church. I'm not a heartless SOB, I just don't like street beggars.
    Az

    -- Luck favors the well prepared.

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    At 20', if I were unarmed I would have started the truck and drove around the building. Called the wifeypoo on the cell and told her what was going on and then picked her up right in front of the door when she was ready to come out.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    I always tell them I have nothing to give and to move along.
    +1
    If I see them first (and I usually do) I try to never let them even get close. I try to get them turned around ASAP and have a few canned phrases that get the point across pretty quickly. If they are approaching, no matter what I say, then I better be able to see their hands. Hands are what hurt you and hands are what kill you...most of the time anyway. When you let a bum get close and engage you in a conversation and if that conversation progresses to the point where you are giving them what they want, two things happen. One is that they have succeeded in controlling you to some extent. This can also have the undesirable effect of emboldening them. Secondly, at some point you will become distracted. Why allow them this space and take the risk? Why trust them to act reasonably (taking the money and leaving)?? Never be shy about telling someone that is approaching you in a questionable situation that it would be smart to stop and you'd better be able to see their hands. Trust me, chances are they've heard it before and understand completely.

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