I don't need self defense...."I HAVE A GUN" - Page 4

I don't need self defense...."I HAVE A GUN"

This is a discussion on I don't need self defense...."I HAVE A GUN" within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Kyodai My primary weapon system is my mind. Everything else, including the gun or my training is a secondary weapon system to ...

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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyodai View Post
    My primary weapon system is my mind. Everything else, including the gun or my training is a secondary weapon system to be deployed only if the primary fails to avoid the situation.

    While I do understand the sense of security having a firearm provides, we need to follow our own words in that the gun doesn't keep me alive or safe. I do.

    Kyodai from Colorado.
    You have nailed it, brother! Anything in my sphere of influence can be used as a weapon, even the ground, as long as I have the right mindset and training. (Okay, especially the ground, for you grappling guys!) The firearm is just another step on the escalation continuum. And on the other end of the scale, next to not being there in the first place, running away is still the best defense.
    "Be justified. Blood may be easily wiped from the sword.
    It cannot, however, be put back from where it came." --Quicksabre


  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllAbtSlfDef View Post
    I understand that when we get to a certain point in training(in anything) that we forget what it was to be a beginner.
    Good insight. And true for everything from baseball to firearms to martial arts. Occasionally I make my ranking student put on a white belt and stand in the last row...just so he/she doesn't forget what it's like to be "new."

    I went through the same thing when I started training in Daito Ryu Aikijutsu, lo these many years ago, wearing a white belt after having been a black belt in Tae Kwon Do for awhile. It's humbling. Then it happened again, with Arnis (blades and sticks, mostly). And lately, Krav Maga/handgun training (we combine the two).

    There's always something new to learn, and there's always somebody better!
    "Be justified. Blood may be easily wiped from the sword.
    It cannot, however, be put back from where it came." --Quicksabre

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    For the past 4 years now I've been studying Krav Maga and I've also taken a number of knife fighting classes. I have a ton of videos to fill the time between classes and the Emerson Edged Weapons DVD's have been great.

    What's been great about Krav Maga is the incorporation of knives, flashlights, handguns, etc. I was in a situation 11 years ago, when I was 19, that lethal force would have been justified. Due to my age, I didn't have a handgun on me. I've been studying martial arts since I was 6 years old. Had I not, I wouldn't be here today. I was able to disarm my attacker (the second was inside using my ATM card for the third and probably final time) and disable them so i could get the heck out of there. I left some a few teeth and a part of their face behind. if I wouldn't have fought, I am 100% sure I would have been killed out in a field or in the woods somewhere. While he had the gun in his hand, he was also playing with a piece of wire, not unlike piano wire.

    So, I'm all about every bit of self defense training one can pick up over time. For me, I have found Krav Maga is the best thing for me. I've never been one to carry a knife for defensive reasons, but with the knowledge I have of it, I need to look at it more seriously. Now, like I said, I have about 10 years of martial arts mixed in there, but Krav Maga, for me, is very effective.

    I know a number of people that think their gun is the ultimate answer. Half of them have very little training even with that. It's like all these caliber wars. Pick the one you shoot best and train like crazy, that's all there is to it. These guys that put all their faith in caliber choice are the ones I'm concerned about. I know a few guys that, even with my training and experience with firearms, I'd still turn and run the other way if I saw them walking towards me with a rolled up magazine!!

    It's no joke out there and we most likely won't just "rise to the occasion". I love my family and thoroughly enjoy my life too much NOT to get as much training as possible. Also, with all the traveling we do, there are times I cannot have a handgun with me, and my wife loves to travel. It's simple here that we just don't go to states that I can't carry, but no matter what country we go to, I cannot carry. If it was up to me, we'd just keep traveling between Texas (where we live), Vegas, Florida, Washington, Louisiana and Colorado and I'd be very happy with just that. My wife, on the other hand, believes there's more out there to see besides just the US and North America.

    So, this is where these other options for self defense come in very handy. I couldn't imagine how I'd feel in a different country, unarmed and untrained with no means to defend myself.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  4. #49
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    Thank you, jonconsiglio, really nice post

    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    For the past 4 years now I've been studying Krav Maga and I've also taken a number of knife fighting classes. I have a ton of videos to fill the time between classes and the Emerson Edged Weapons DVD's have been great.

    What's been great about Krav Maga is the incorporation of knives, flashlights, handguns, etc. I was in a situation 11 years ago, when I was 19, that lethal force would have been justified. Due to my age, I didn't have a handgun on me. I've been studying martial arts since I was 6 years old. Had I not, I wouldn't be here today. I was able to disarm my attacker (the second was inside using my ATM card for the third and probably final time) and disable them so i could get the heck out of there. I left some a few teeth and a part of their face behind. if I wouldn't have fought, I am 100% sure I would have been killed out in a field or in the woods somewhere. While he had the gun in his hand, he was also playing with a piece of wire, not unlike piano wire.

    So, I'm all about every bit of self defense training one can pick up over time. For me, I have found Krav Maga is the best thing for me. I've never been one to carry a knife for defensive reasons, but with the knowledge I have of it, I need to look at it more seriously. Now, like I said, I have about 10 years of martial arts mixed in there, but Krav Maga, for me, is very effective.

    I know a number of people that think their gun is the ultimate answer. Half of them have very little training even with that. It's like all these caliber wars. Pick the one you shoot best and train like crazy, that's all there is to it. These guys that put all their faith in caliber choice are the ones I'm concerned about. I know a few guys that, even with my training and experience with firearms, I'd still turn and run the other way if I saw them walking towards me with a rolled up magazine!!

    It's no joke out there and we most likely won't just "rise to the occasion". I love my family and thoroughly enjoy my life too much NOT to get as much training as possible. Also, with all the traveling we do, there are times I cannot have a handgun with me, and my wife loves to travel. It's simple here that we just don't go to states that I can't carry, but no matter what country we go to, I cannot carry. If it was up to me, we'd just keep traveling between Texas (where we live), Vegas, Florida, Washington, Louisiana and Colorado and I'd be very happy with just that. My wife, on the other hand, believes there's more out there to see besides just the US and North America.

    So, this is where these other options for self defense come in very handy. I couldn't imagine how I'd feel in a different country, unarmed and untrained with no means to defend myself.
    Really nice post. Thanks.

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Thank you.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    For the past 4 years now I've been studying Krav Maga and I've also taken a number of knife fighting classes. ...

    I was in a situation 11 years ago, when I was 19, that lethal force would have been justified. Due to my age, I didn't have a handgun on me. I've been studying martial arts since I was 6 years old. Had I not, I wouldn't be here today. ...

    So, I'm all about every bit of self defense training one can pick up over time. For me, I have found Krav Maga is the best thing for me. ...

    I know a number of people that think their gun is the ultimate answer. Half of them have very little training even with that. ...

    It's no joke out there and we most likely won't just "rise to the occasion". I love my family and thoroughly enjoy my life too much NOT to get as much training as possible. ...

    So, this is where these other options for self defense come in very handy. I couldn't imagine how I'd feel in a different country, unarmed and untrained with no means to defend myself.
    Sir, very thought-out post, thank you for sharing.

    I totally concur on the Krav Maga.

    As to the people who think the gun is the ultimate choice ... for some it is due to age, disability, gender, ignorance, etc. It think criticizing people for carrying for whatever reason if not fair. It's their choice; their life; their potential mistake. It's our right!

    I'm not young and indestructible anymore, as I was when studying KM in Israel in 1976. My options have been limited by age, disabilities ... you know, getting old and senile.

    True, most gun-carrying citizens, not to mention law-abiding gun-owners, do not train enough (let's not start yet another define 'enough' debate, shall we) to master their primary self-defense choice - the gun. It is beyond me how they think a confrontation will end in their favor. Again, it's their life, their choice.

    As to living in a foreign country: I've lived almost half of my life overseas and never felt fear or threatened. This, of course, depends on the country. Some parts of Africa did not feel too safe.

    I never feared in Israel, because there were guns everywhere. The same applies to Japan, a young lady can walk 3 am alone the streets of Tokyo and nobody will bother her. India, while violent, in three years not a single incident of threat or violence. I could list most of 70+ countries, such as Switzerland, Norway, Holland, Hungary, etc., I lived in or visited, and my family and I experienced nothing untoward sans occasional over billing.

    Things have changed a bit since I was young and beautiful.

    I do agree with you that the more you're prepared the better your odds should the manure start flying.

    The fact of the matter is that (depending who is collecting the data) some ~2,500,000 your fellow Americans defend themselves yearly by employing a firearm to a situation that could have resulted in death.

    I'll bet 99.99% did not have a clue about martial arts.

    I wish you all the best and stay safe.
    If our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right.” -- Cicero

  7. #52
    Member Array AllAbtSlfDef's Avatar
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    About always learning. I recently got in touch with another local instructor who cut ties with his previous school. Any way, he is a striker and very good. I learned a lot from him in just one session, I can't wait to explore everything else that I can learn from him. Also an old instructor of mine is rejoining us at my Dojo. He is also very well versed in handgun, long gun, knife, etc. I am very excited. ( kinda off topic but hey whatever) lol.


    Jason
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllAbtSlfDef View Post
    My point is not to bash women, but to say that anyone who feels that merely buying and carrying a firearm does NOT mean that you are prepared to defend yourself. If you buy a gun and carry it you need to focus on malfunction clearing, reloading, weapon retention, weapon disarm, and supplemtary weapons(knife, oc, kubaton, etc) If you are carrying a firearm you need to be able to defend yourself with and without that weapon. Hand to hand is more than likely what you need to rely on to save you.

    I thought maybe some people would enjoy this story and maybe relate to it and give their opinion. Hopefully some people man or woman will get their eyes opened to this and seek more training.
    Thanks.
    ***************NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE *****************

    Jason
    For some reason all my thoughts came as clichés
    • "Having a gun does not mean you are armed"
    • "If the only tool in the tool box is a hammer all your problems look like nails"
    • "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink"
    • "You can only help those that want to help themselves"

    and regarding offending anyone paraphrased in accordance with forum rules
    "
    • The Truth will set you free, but first it will tick you off
    '
    Good post
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  9. #54
    Member Array AllAbtSlfDef's Avatar
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    I don't mean to direct what I said merely at women alone, I have had male students who think because they wrestled in highschool or have been in bar fights makes them the next mma star or the next K1 champ.

    Jason
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  10. #55
    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    First off I agree w/ the Op that more training is certainly better. I feel that I am reasonably trained. Not severely undertrained, but I could use plenty more, in many disciplines.
    My point – I would rather see a woman with the above attitude (I don’t need self defense…I have a gun) than a woman (or man) with the “it won’t happen to me” attitude.
    I have read many accounts of self defense stories using firearms, and very few potential victims appear to be “prepared” for a lethal encounter. But they used what they had and prevailed. Most of the attackers are looking for an easy mark, and quickly change their mind when a firearm is presented on the other end.
    Obviously this doesn’t work when there is a more dedicated attacker.
    I applaud the efforts of any who think about their self defense enough to take a class, improve their SA, buy a gun, pepper spray, knife, etc, etc. I will not discount the dangers to themselves and others if they don’t have a minimum of training and proficiency using their weapon of choice.
    To me, Self defense is a continuum going from Sheep to combat master (or whatever you want to call it). Good to those who separate themselves, even a little bit, from the sheep, and start to take some responsibility for their safety.

    I have not written this to bash anyone or their views, only to give some credit to those who are joining our ranks with less enthusiasm than most of us here.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

    "People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayzor View Post
    To me, Self defense is a continuum going from Sheep to combat master (or whatever you want to call it). Good to those who separate themselves, even a little bit, from the sheep, and start to take some responsibility for their safety.

    I have not written this to bash anyone or their views, only to give some credit to those who are joining our ranks with less enthusiasm than most of us here.
    While I fully comprehend your intended message, I've hard time considering my 93-year-old mother as a 'sheep.' She has fought her wars and survived.

    We - you - really should drop the from any intelligent and thought-provoking dialogue.

    As to 'combat master,' the enemy is able to annihilate the best this country can create from Navy SEALs to other special forces units (how many Deltas have died in the hands of illiterate savages?)

    So, with all due respect, lets keep it real, shall we.

    All the best and stay safe.
    If our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right.” -- Cicero

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I've read the posts, and again... I think most of us would agree that anything that we can do to improve and increase our ability to defend ourselves that we are capable of doing, is good.

    But, I think the OP posted .... someone who wasn't convinced and his attempt to convince them, and couldn't. So, I still think it was an opportunity lost, and no matter what or how he did it, that may have been the end result.

    No one is going to push someone into it believing anything, they have to come to the conclusion themselves it's beneficial enough to do it. Let's turn this around, instead of martial arts, convincing someone they need to carry a gun for defense purposes. How is it any different ? You can tell them all of the good reasons for it, but if they are not convinced themselves, they will not do it.... no matter what anyone says ... and I think telling them the error of their ways or pushing them about it, isn't going to get good results.

    So, I think this is more about... how do you take someone who's not convinced to do something you know would be a benefit to them, and and walk them down the path to where they convince themselves it's a benefit ?

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MN2Go View Post
    While I fully comprehend your intended message, I've hard time considering my 93-year-old mother as a 'sheep.' She has fought her wars and survived.

    We - you - really should drop the from any intelligent and thought-provoking dialogue.

    As to 'combat master,' the enemy is able to annihilate the best this country can create from Navy SEALs to other special forces units (how many Deltas have died in the hands of illiterate savages?)

    So, with all due respect, lets keep it real, shall we.

    All the best and stay safe.
    Yes. I hate the sheep analogy. I tire easily of Grossman. But I tire more easily of phoney on-line elitism. Repackaged SLAM and Nietszche-ism meets populist social science.

    I don't know a single person who has died from an insurgent or criminal Ninja. But a lot of guys with rusty rifles or $25 IEDs have put a number of really well-trained folks in the ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    I've read the posts, and again... I think most of us would agree that anything that we can do to improve and increase our ability to defend ourselves that we are capable of doing, is good.

    But, I think the OP posted .... someone who wasn't convinced and his attempt to convince them, and couldn't. So, I still think it was an opportunity lost, and no matter what or how he did it, that may have been the end result.

    No one is going to push someone into it believing anything, they have to come to the conclusion themselves it's beneficial enough to do it. Let's turn this around, instead of martial arts, convincing someone they need to carry a gun for defense purposes. How is it any different ? You can tell them all of the good reasons for it, but if they are not convinced themselves, they will not do it.... no matter what anyone says ... and I think telling them the error of their ways or pushing them about it, isn't going to get good results.

    So, I think this is more about... how do you take someone who's not convinced to do something you know would be a benefit to them, and and walk them down the path to where they convince themselves it's a benefit ?
    Here's where my mind has been going, lately. I am currently writing training curriculum for folks whose culture is a gross mis-match for ours. Very similar idea.

    Everyone on this forum has their idea of what SD/HD and mindset means. We all adhere to a similar schema, with minor differences. I think if the goal is to convince more folks to come over to the light, one might have to "teach less" and "convince more" in SD instruction.

    But the convincing, for a lot of people, has to less pushing and more pulling.

    More thoughts on this, but need to think it through more.

  14. #59
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    Great post! Definitely agree with you on the value of knowing a thing or two about hand to hand techniques. Also agree with some others, big thumbs-down on the purse carry. I hope you were able to give this lady some things to think about. She's definitely on the right track carrying at all and taking the martial arts class, just hope she gets all the way into it now.

  15. #60
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    It's also apalling that there are also some shooters that are out of condition. Lot of them do not realize that incident require a lot of energy to be expended. Unarmed self-defense/self-defense using other alternative weapons is also needed for situations:
    -where a gun is not legally allowed to be carried
    -where using a gun might be inappropriate
    -where gun retention is needed if someone tries to take your gun away from you

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