I don't need self defense...."I HAVE A GUN" - Page 5

I don't need self defense...."I HAVE A GUN"

This is a discussion on I don't need self defense...."I HAVE A GUN" within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Jason Storm It's also apalling that there are also some shooters that are out of condition. Lot of them do not realize ...

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  1. #61
    Member Array MN2Go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Storm View Post
    It's also apalling that there are also some shooters that are out of condition. Lot of them do not realize that incident require a lot of energy to be expended.
    Let's take a hypothetical: a person loves smoking cigars and after some years develops COPD that creates of of those appalling out of condition shooters.

    What is such a person supposed to utilize as self-defense means against potential attackers? Not a firearm?

    Many Americans, totally against their free will, develop disabilities that allow only the firearms-approach of SD. A person in a wheelchair carrying a gun is my hero.

    I'm all for people taking their time to practice all the martial arts in the world, but let's be real here, shall we?

    I pretty well have defined the SD situations I can deal with. If my luck runs out, I'm done - as were the people in Twin Towers and Pearl Harbor.

    Stay safe.
    If our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right. -- Cicero


  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Being devil's advocate for a second;

    1) if you don't have time to draw, you didnt' stay aware and waited too long due to not assessing the situation well enough beforehand, let alone they got that close to begin with. Your training did not help you much.

    2) martial arts, are not a cure all. I was in them for years, and did cross training in other disciplines, as well as with weapons. . Learning martial arts is not "how to fight" , it is how to keep out of a fight and what to do only if there is no other choice. It's not for people to get macho and believe they can whip everyone else or fight their way out of every situation. Just because you know them, doesn't mean the person doing the attacking isn't trained and may know more than you do . .... bad assumption.

    3) martial arts are not a defense against a gun, a bullet travels much faster.

    4) I'm totally and absolutely against off the body carry.

    5) As people get older, their ability to "fight" their way out is lessened to some degree, so martial arts are not a great help in most cases, but they can still defend themselves often quite well.

    IMHO .... I think to "challenge" the woman on her intelligence or choice was the wrong approach for any 'instructor'. I think approaching her to "add " to her skills and arsenal would have been a better approach. One can never have too many tools to use for self-defense .... just in case they are needed or prove useful.


    I am in the Eagleks camp here.
    I am nearing 50, with arthritis ever so swiftly starting to wrack my body. That and 29 years as a truck driver has left my body bent and bruised. I have had my L5 fused, and would be in no shape to ward off an attack, unless it were a single attacker,in similar shape such as I.
    Now up the ante a bit, and throw in the fact that a probable attack will be from someone much younger, and possilbe multiple perps, and my days as a street grappler would be over very quickly.
    I'm not saying you guys have a point about H2H, but one also must come to grips from a reality sense, and not give a false sense of hope to an individual who in the majority of attacks would be getting the short end of the stick really fast, by thinking this would serve them well.


    "When you were born you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die you are smiling and everyone around you is crying."
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by MN2Go View Post
    While I fully comprehend your intended message, I've hard time considering my 93-year-old mother as a 'sheep.' She has fought her wars and survived.

    We - you - really should drop the from any intelligent and thought-provoking dialogue.

    As to 'combat master,' the enemy is able to annihilate the best this country can create from Navy SEALs to other special forces units (how many Deltas have died in the hands of illiterate savages?)

    So, with all due respect, lets keep it real, shall we.

    All the best and stay safe.

    Very well put my friend, very well put.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    I am in the Eagleks camp here.
    I am nearing 50, with arthritis ever so swiftly starting to wrack my body.
    Being past 50, having had my neck and back broken several times as well as most of the major bones in my body I definitely understand that as we age our limitations increase. That is exactly why living active lives or working out become so critical. The more sedentary we are the important working out becomes.

    As well as looking for alternative ways to defend ourselves. As much as we may not like it we are increasingly looking like prey to the predators. The day of respecting elders has long gone. I have always carried a knife I've trained new ways to use it, like the SubCom I use for a money clip, I carry a cane and train with it. As LimaTunes is fond of saying, death is a poor excuse for not fighting back. Being an old crippled fart is an even poorer excuse
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  5. #65
    Member Array AllAbtSlfDef's Avatar
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    So everyone on here that is saying that they are "too old" or "too hurt" or "can't" do any H2H I have another question. Does this mean that if someone who spots your gun, which can happen, and wants to take it from you is just going to be able to walk up and take it. If someone one tries to take your weapon you will and should do everything you can to retain it.

    Well what is the most common weapon you have at that point, and most accessible. YOUR HANDS! lol If you can strike someone in the throat or the eye or wherever that is still defending yourself without a gun. Everyone that can squeeze a trigger can shove their finger in someone's eye socket, or strike to the nose. This is all still forms of self defense.
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  6. #66
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    While I do not disagree with hand use if/when possible........
    There is precedent of a gun grab being classified as attempted murder and justifying lethal force, albeit use of the gun. Not to mention disparity of force issues.

  7. #67
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    Something will need to be done to create distance to draw or to break the BG's grip on your piece. Something needs to transition you from empty hand to gun, If you are injured or what have you then you won't be able to just snatch your gun away from someone with intent.
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  8. #68
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    Circumstances and capabilities/infirmities will most likely determine available actions. My point was that depending on things, the door may have opened for the use of lethal force as opposed to just lesser methods.

  9. #69
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllAbtSlfDef View Post
    So everyone on here that is saying that they are "too old" or "too hurt" or "can't" do any H2H I have another question. Does this mean that if someone who spots your gun, which can happen, and wants to take it from you is just going to be able to walk up and take it. If someone one tries to take your weapon you will and should do everything you can to retain it.

    Well what is the most common weapon you have at that point, and most accessible. YOUR HANDS! lol If you can strike someone in the throat or the eye or wherever that is still defending yourself without a gun. Everyone that can squeeze a trigger can shove their finger in someone's eye socket, or strike to the nose. This is all still forms of self defense.
    I just like to once again reiterate that my 80+ year old sensei(knee problems and all) can take still kick my ass.
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  10. #70
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    My point was that depending on things, the door may have opened for the use of lethal force as opposed to just lesser methods.
    and his point was, the issue is if someone is grabbing at the gun, you will still need to learn how to get them off of your gun so you can actually draw it and fire it.
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  11. #71
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    I thought that I acknowledged that point in the first part of the post that you did not quote.

  12. #72
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    I saw that part, but if your serious about self defense training, age and handicap can be worked around in most cases. some of the adults in my class aren't all Olympic champions free of injuries by any means, we have people with destroyed rotator cuffs, carious knee and back issues, etc. You have to learn what works for you to have more options.
    Last edited by ctsketch; May 24th, 2010 at 08:02 AM.
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  13. #73
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    I have no arguement with that.

  14. #74
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    Jason Storm brings up an important, peripheral point:

    If you are spending significant time, thinking, energy and money on a self-defense firearm, you are doing so to preserve your life, and possibly the lives of others.

    If that assumption is correct, what are you doing to preserve your own life by maximizing your physical fitness/health?

    If we look at ourselves honestly, the grossly obese self-defense "gun-nut" has become somewhat of an accurate stereotype, in our particular culture. So; if your life is so valuable that it warrants all that work on armed self-defense, why not also devote similar effort to cutting bad habits and getting in shape?

  15. #75
    Member Array MN2Go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    If that assumption is correct, what are you doing to preserve your own life by maximizing your physical fitness/health?

    If we look at ourselves honestly, the grossly obese self-defense "gun-nut" has become somewhat of an accurate stereotype, in our particular culture. So; if your life is so valuable that it warrants all that work on armed self-defense, why not also devote similar effort to cutting bad habits and getting in shape?
    Well, I'm walking an hour daily in addition to my other exercises and practice with my SD firearms at least 30 minutes dry-firing - some days I overdo it an d go for a couple hours with all of my home defense firearms from the shotgun to EBRs.

    I spend hours on end thinking practical tactical scenarios how to survive the day for my wife and I. What route I should take today? What guns I need for a simple trip to downtown. I need to check the surveillance system of our home. And, I need to work for living.

    I started martial arts early and traveled to the source to study when I was teenager. I've studied Krav Maga ... and underwent a hip replacement surgery last year - can't run away anymore. I do sky diving and stuff still, though.

    I've got over 20 years of competitive shooting (mainly IPSC) under my belt - that translates into hundreds of matches and hundreds of thousands of aimed rounds, most of which hit the A zone. Then there was the service for my country.

    My question to you is: what right do you have to question the extend of my effort to defend my life in any which way I desire? So what if I'm a fat, sloppy law-abiding gun owner (I'm 5 10 ~170)?

    You too, my fellow American, will become old and most probably changes in your body and mind will take place. If you're lucky, you'll not succumb to any of the crippling diseases that force you to become the appalling fatso with arthritis and huge, disgusting belly that needs to devote similar effort to getting in shape?

    But, you pose an excellent question: "Why not also devote similar effort to cutting bad habits and getting in shape?"

    The answer is: change is difficult because we're human beings, does that translate into less valuable life to defend?

    It does not, however, in any shape of from take away my right to defend myself with a firearm regardless if I know or am able to shove [my] their finger in someone's eye socket.

    Train all you want, whatever you want - good for you. I admire everyone that tries his/her best to improve their lives. I'm certain all that facilitates survival is a good thing.

    Does anyone challenge you about your firearms training? Maybe everything you do sucks and you'd concentrate in better quality training to improve your skills with SD firearms? Spend those extra 50,000 rounds yearly to get in shape?

    Quite a few young guns I see at the range really suck with their fancy guns. I can easily weak-hand shoot them to the laughing gallery.

    No offense intended.

    Thank you for your service and stay safe.
    If our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right. -- Cicero

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