I don't need self defense...."I HAVE A GUN"

This is a discussion on I don't need self defense...."I HAVE A GUN" within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am glad yours was the first response. Because you have been consistent, and even-handed in all the posts I've read. And I have taken ...

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Thread: I don't need self defense...."I HAVE A GUN"

  1. #76
    Member Array 120mm's Avatar
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    I am glad yours was the first response. Because you have been consistent, and even-handed in all the posts I've read. And I have taken counsel with your words.

    And, of course, I am questioning philisophically.

    But a lot of the tone of other posters has been judgmental and dismissive, and you have called them on it. My ulterior point is just that.

    Thank you for a very good response.

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  3. #77
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    The reason why I brought up physical conditioning is that half of them that I see on the range can even barely sit or even barely walk to set up their target without getting winded. And not too many take the time to do combat shooting from esoterical postions and instead prefer to shoot from a table rest and chair. And when I was emphasizing self-defense, I am emphasizing down and dirty techniques, not fancy complicated ones. It s***s for the wheelchair bound person to not be familiar with a few moves if he/she has to go to place where guns are not allowed. There are some self-defense techniques a wheelchair bound person can use due to his/her advantage on lower center of gravity.

  4. #78
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    Allow me a word or two as a genuine old dude with big medical problems, probably an unfortunate limited future life span too, who does work on MA 3 hours a week.

    Everyone is different. I know guys 10 years younger in good health who can't do what I do. I am sure there are guys 10 years older (rare, but they exist) who can do much much more. I know people 10 years younger who have serious medical conditions and can do almost nothing beyond walking a few feet.

    For me the single "hey there fella" moment was the moment I realized that there are only very limited situations in which a gun may be legally used, or even presented. Once I realized that, I figured out quickly that I needed some sort of additional ability besides the ability to beg for my life.

    If you physically, or perhaps for economic or time reasons, can not learn some h2h, then at least consider learning to carry (and how to use) OC, a cane, a knife---anything legal (where you live) to give yourself an option short of bang.

    Again, everyone is different and what works for one person doesn't work for another person. The only sin I see is not even thinking about options. Because, without options you are boxed in to two lousy choices--submission and lethal violence. Even an old fashioned police whistle can help you/ as can perhaps a dry chemical fire-extinguisher. Get creative. Think about the things you can do which fall short of the big bang.

  5. #79
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpwing View Post
    There are people of both sexes who put way too much faith in merely possessing a gun.
    Agreed...And also agreed with the OP.

    Males out of shape and overweight by 20 to 200 lbs who figure ehh I've got a gun...And besides I'm a 'big guy' (insert coach potato/walrus type body by Budweiser type build) and/or I did some wrestling/played football in highschool/college (30+ yrs. ago!), so all bases are covered.
    Women with their purse carry...For the lose!

    And then there are the willfully blind who walk into dark alleys and go for moon lit walks in secluded areas at all manner of the night/morning only to find themself run up on by wild dogs and hyena.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  6. #80
    Member Array MN2Go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Storm View Post
    The reason why I brought up physical conditioning is that half of them that I see on the range can even barely sit or even barely walk to set up their target without getting winded. ...
    Jason, perfectly germane point, and I applaud you bringing it out in the open for a dialogue.

    You also need to recognize the fact that twenty years ago the martial arts were not as common and available as they are now.

    For many 'old farts' the gun was the excuse to go to the range and talk about firearms between the few shots every now and then to make the range time look 'legit.'

    Things change.

    Keep up the good work, we need your insight and experience - and opinions to improve.

    Stay safe.
    If our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right. -- Cicero

  7. #81
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    MN2Go, my thoughts exactly and let me tell you all that MMA is strictly television. The martial art these days is pistol craft. I was always trained that if it gets to h2h and you have a weapon, you screwed up somewhere. MMA, Krav Maga, or any system versus a trained shooter is no match, because you will never get close enough to grab.
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

  8. #82
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    A bullet is not always effective, nor is it always certain you will have time to draw your gun. I can crab a mugger's strong (pistol) wrist faster than he can perceive my movement and pull a trigger (The hand IS quicker than the eye). We do this drill in class with pop cats, where if the "mugger" senses any non compliance he must immediately shoot, by time they pull the trigger they are usually already half disarmed.

    And if someone comes behind you with a knife what will you do? or lunges at you with a knife at close range, or grabs you from behind? what good is your bullet doing now? how are you going to push that away? Best to escape, gain control then pull your side arm.





    Quite literally Shodan (1st degree black belt) means Beginner level when translated from Japanese, that is where I am at right now, I plan to continue to train as long as my body is able. my Sensei is 7th Dan USJA and USJJF and in his Eighties, I hope I can keep going that long.
    Wow...let me help you before you get yourself hurt. If you seek to disarm a knife expect to get cut, if you seek to disarm a gun expect to get shot. Now, as to if these forces are fatal is what you rest your life on. Disarms are normally last ditch efforts. There are no rewinds in life, no Oscars, just 230 grains ripping through your body or several quick thrust to your armpit.
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

  9. #83
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Allow me a word or two as a genuine old dude with big medical problems, probably an unfortunate limited future life span too, who does work on MA 3 hours a week.

    Everyone is different. I know guys 10 years younger in good health who can't do what I do. I am sure there are guys 10 years older (rare, but they exist) who can do much much more. I know people 10 years younger who have serious medical conditions and can do almost nothing beyond walking a few feet.

    For me the single "hey there fella" moment was the moment I realized that there are only very limited situations in which a gun may be legally used, or even presented. Once I realized that, I figured out quickly that I needed some sort of additional ability besides the ability to beg for my life.

    If you physically, or perhaps for economic or time reasons, can not learn some h2h, then at least consider learning to carry (and how to use) OC, a cane, a knife---anything legal (where you live) to give yourself an option short of bang.

    Again, everyone is different and what works for one person doesn't work for another person. The only sin I see is not even thinking about options. Because, without options you are boxed in to two lousy choices--submission and lethal violence. Even an old fashioned police whistle can help you/ as can perhaps a dry chemical fire-extinguisher. Get creative. Think about the things you can do which fall short of the big bang.
    Improvised weapons, you use what you have or what is available. As you get older and your physical attributes diminish, you definitely be more creative than ever. In other words, the older you get, the dirtier you must be. When I was a few years younger, I used to rely Muay Thai, jujitsu, etc. Now, I lean more towards combatives and other reality based self-defense programs. I know someone mentioned Krav Maga and that is another good example of reality based self-defense. Another example of program I have added to my workouts is the use of kettlebell weights. I know this week I took a week off to reward myself from passing the Physical Readiness test, as I am in the Navy and required to take it twice a year. All I did this week is to familiarize myself with some of the kettlebell workouts and I am learning them quite well. But next week, I am going full blown on it. Anyone that has no joint or bone problems wants to build functional/explosive strength, flexibility and endurance for combatives or martial arts, the kettlebell is a great fitness tool and it has been practiced for centuries by Europeans and it goes to show why they dominated a lot of strength competitions. Only about 2 yrs. ago did it became popular here in the US. I am now 37 and maintain my conditioning. Because of that, I can still shoot my guns from a lot of difficult positions w/o hurting myself. As you also get older, you continue to refine your workouts and find way to challenge yourself. If you don't do so, you will get bored and then you are no longer motivated to keep in shape. Overall, I try to balance my time working on my shooting, H2H combat, and functional physical conditioning. Not only looking fit is good for military bearing and personal appearance, it is also a great deterrent along with a confident posture. Who does the criminal fear? The skinny guy, the obese fella, or the lean/muscular individual? Again, image is everything. I would rather fear the fit looking guy. Again, just my honest opinion.

  10. #84
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueLion View Post
    MN2Go, my thoughts exactly and let me tell you all that MMA is strictly television. The martial art these days is pistol craft. I was always trained that if it gets to h2h and you have a weapon, you screwed up somewhere. MMA, Krav Maga, or any system versus a trained shooter is no match, because you will never get close enough to grab.
    Any shooter who lets someone close enought to grab his/her weapon better know some gun retention. In the street, it is the opposite from the battlefield. You rely only on the gun as the last resort for lethal situations and some situations do not warrant the use of deadly force. And there are some places where you can't carry a gun. MMA is good to develop some attributes, we gotta start somewhere. But it never is the sure thing when it comes to self-defense on the street, which is not the ring and is very dynamic.

  11. #85
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    MMA, Krav Maga, or any system versus a trained shooter is no match, because you will never get close enough to grab.
    All this talk talk talk. so reliant on your gun. Like I said, unless you never wait in a line or go anywhere with a crowd or work alone, or NEVER go somewhere where you can't have a gun... you best believe people will get close enough to you where learning some h2h is not a bad idea.
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  12. #86
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    Wow...let me help you before you get yourself hurt. If you seek to disarm a knife expect to get cut, if you seek to disarm a gun expect to get shot. Now, as to if these forces are fatal is what you rest your life on. Disarms are normally last ditch efforts. There are no rewinds in life, no Oscars, just 230 grains ripping through your body or several quick thrust to your armpit.
    I have no illusions about this. knife fighting is messy business which is why I suggested using a boxer like stance to move in (because there are less vital parts in the outside of your forearms). Also unless the shot is placed correctly you can still fight after a GSW, you've seen it before. While disarming a mugger is a last ditch effort. it is STILL an option.

    I can't believe people on a forum so open to having self defense options refuse to see this possibility.

    MN2Go, my thoughts exactly and let me tell you all that MMA is strictly television.
    You are damn right MMA is just television. they are glorified wrestlers who have a ring and rules. the system I practice is only for combat, not competition and we do also do rigorous drills involving knives, bats and hand guns.
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  13. #87
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    All this talk talk talk. so reliant on your gun. Like I said, unless you never wait in a line or go anywhere with a crowd or work alone, or NEVER go somewhere where you can't have a gun... you best believe people will get close enough to you where learning some h2h is not a bad idea.
    A gun can jam and if a knife wielding assailant is less than 21 ft. way and your gun is not yet out of the holster, you are out of luck unless you have something in between you and the assailant or you move sideways. And, backing down also does not do you any good. You may shoot him/her, but he/she can still close in and stab you. A gun is just one of the tools of self-defense I employ. And if the gun jams, you can either use the gun as an impact weapon or go for an optional lethal weapon such as a knife. Because of that, I carry a tactical folder too.

  14. #88
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    100% agreed on the MMA stuff. It is a sport and the fighters are very tough and athletic. There are many times that a non MMA fighter will hit the ground in a fight. It is helpful to have that kind of training. BUT there is no tap in the street its a *SNAP*. MMA is not designed to be street applicable, not meant to fight more than one person. If I go to the ground throat, eyes, nose, small joints are all targets I plan to exploit.

    As far as disarms, very possible, or how about when you draw your gun on subject A and subject B and C hit you with an alley biscuit? Also if rushed in a combat situation, you can disarm yourself by dropping your weapon(s). Then what?

    Some sort of unarmed SD is absolutely necessary if you plan on having and carrying a gun, you need a plan to transition to your gun, and a back up plan if your gun fails.falls,jams,etc.
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  15. #89
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueLion View Post
    Wow...let me help you before you get yourself hurt. If you seek to disarm a knife expect to get cut, if you seek to disarm a gun expect to get shot. Now, as to if these forces are fatal is what you rest your life on. Disarms are normally last ditch efforts. There are no rewinds in life, no Oscars, just 230 grains ripping through your body or several quick thrust to your armpit.
    I won't disarm a knife unarmed unless I have no other weapons available. Other than a gun, I can also use anything as an improvised weapon to deal with a knife attack, even anything on the street (brick/stick/bottle/trashcan lid/etc.). A knife attack is not gonna be telegraphed. It often happens when you least expect it, like in prison. Beware of the knife, which is man's oldest and most efficient close-quarter killing tool.

  16. #90
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllAbtSlfDef View Post
    100% agreed on the MMA stuff. It is a sport and the fighters are very tough and athletic. There are many times that a non MMA fighter will hit the ground in a fight. It is helpful to have that kind of training. BUT there is no tap in the street its a *SNAP*. MMA is not designed to be street applicable, not meant to fight more than one person. If I go to the ground throat, eyes, nose, small joints are all targets I plan to exploit.

    As far as disarms, very possible, or how about when you draw your gun on subject A and subject B and C hit you with an alley biscuit? Also if rushed in a combat situation, you can disarm yourself by dropping your weapon(s). Then what?

    Some sort of unarmed SD is absolutely necessary if you plan on having and carrying a gun, you need a plan to transition to your gun, and a back up plan if your gun fails.falls,jams,etc.
    Like they say, "if you are not cheating, you are not trying hard enough". In a life and death situation, anything goes and you use every advantage possible.

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