I don't need self defense...."I HAVE A GUN" - Page 7

I don't need self defense...."I HAVE A GUN"

This is a discussion on I don't need self defense...."I HAVE A GUN" within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Unless a person puts in some serious (differs in everyones opinion I know) training, you PROBABLY won't be ready for a suprise attack. That's why ...

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Thread: I don't need self defense...."I HAVE A GUN"

  1. #91
    Member Array AllAbtSlfDef's Avatar
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    Unless a person puts in some serious (differs in everyones opinion I know) training, you PROBABLY won't be ready for a suprise attack. That's why it's called a suprise attack not a " I train alot and will see it coming everytime" attack. Even our best soldiers and spec ops groups fall victim to suprise attacks, and training for them is daily life.
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."


  2. #92
    Member Array AllAbtSlfDef's Avatar
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    Agreed, dirty is good, there are no more knock 'em down pick 'em up buy 'em a beer fights anymore. Like Mercop says, fight like a cat to escape, not like a dog to win.
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  3. #93
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllAbtSlfDef View Post
    Agreed, dirty is good, there are no more knock 'em down pick 'em up buy 'em a beer fights anymore. Like Mercop says, fight like a cat to escape, not like a dog to win.
    I've seen Mercop in some previous forums before and I would say he knows his stuff and has great points to put out.

  4. #94
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllAbtSlfDef View Post
    If a martial artist was attacked by a martial artist that would be great, they would ( more often than not) put them in their "element". Its much harder to fight against someone with no technique, no "style" no pattern, no sport mentality. Its hard to fight against someone who is intent on hurting you and not how pretty their side kick is. I personally train like CTSKETCH. Modern weapons, and on both sides of it.

    BUT being a dedicated martial artist is NOT for everyone. It takes a very long time to get proficient at something. I have trained with people who have bounced from art to art and were very good and had a "style" of their own. I have trained also with people who have bounced around and only picked up what not to do.

    Chances are no one on here can fight like I do, and I can't fight like any of you. The reason, background, height,weight, ability, desire, preference.
    I am 6'2" 320, you will never catch me doing a jump spinning anything, I will kick someone in the head, I will have to sweep their feet and stomp on them first.

    Point- everyone is different, no one fights the same, no one art or system is good for everyone, but EVERYONE should have something.
    I would say that martial arts do give good attributes to be a better shooter and it is easy for most to transition to using guns or what they call "Hojitsu". You become more fluid in your foot work, have better technique, and also exercise proper breathing. You are also in better condition if you have to sprint before you shoot to keep you heart rate up. And believe me, the ones with no cardio conditioning or used improper breathing did poorly in their marksmanship. I can remember a gun instructor at Blackwater asked me if I did martial arts and I said I did some. He said he noticed a lot of those attributes when I did my drills.

  5. #95
    Member Array romansten9's Avatar
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    Ok, here is a related question (I may be starting a new topic on this also) If you use self defense, what concerns do you have about the gun? If someone threatens you with their fists, do you try to retreat (to not reveal that you have a gun) Some people might draw to prevent a fight, others would not. How do you fight while wearing a gun? It might not be concealed when you are moving during a fight. Someone close enough to fight is close enough to try a gun grab. So how do you suggest someone use "hand to hand" when wearing a gun? It seems like the 2 are not compatible together. If you are wearing a gun and someone within 20 feet is threatening you, you need to draw your gun. He may have a knife or other weapon, or may get your weapon from you!

  6. #96
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Look up the thread "Fighting While Carrying". I might have answered your question there.

  7. #97
    Member Array AllAbtSlfDef's Avatar
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    I have not looked at that thread but my philosophy is this. If I am in a confrontation, I am ending it very quickly there is no 3- 5 minute rounds, its in and out get it overwith.

    Sometimes pulling your gun and not using it can be as much a crime as killing someone in a non SD situation.

    If there are more than one person acosting you, I don't know of anything that says you have to go toe to toe so THAT may warrant a firearm.

    I would also say carry in a manner that you can fight while wearing.

    JASON STORM - can you post a link if you haven't already while I'm typing.

    Jason
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  8. #98
    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    A lot of folks carry guns so they DON'T have to learn to fight. This is a HUGE mistake. If you carry a gun you NEED to know how to defend it, both in the holster and in hand.And that requires knowing a bit about hand to hand defense and offense. And unless you KNOW what you are doing you are not likely to cleanly get the gun out if they are within touching distance....Unless you know how to get them positioned so that they cannot stop your draw...and THAT requires knowing something about fighting.

    Another issue is that you simply cannot shoot someone who punches you in the nose or comes up and grabs you. So if you are accosted by a SINGLE unarmed individual and there is not an OBVIOUS disparity of force issue (ie you are old he is young ,he is huge you are small , he is Chuck Liddell and you are not, etc) and you pull a gun and smoke him, then you are going to have some serious legal ramifications to deal with.

    Guns are not talismans that ward off evil. Cops get killed every year with their OWN guns because they do not know how to fight effectively during a disarm attempt.
    Randy Harris
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    TRAIN with me....http://www.suarezinternationalstore....px?find=harris

  9. #99
    Member Array AllAbtSlfDef's Avatar
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    A lot of folks carry guns so they DON'T have to learn to fight. This is a HUGE mistake. If you carry a gun you NEED to know how to defend it, both in the holster and in hand.And that requires knowing a bit about hand to hand defense and offense. And unless you KNOW what you are doing you are not likely to cleanly get the gun out if they are within touching distance....Unless you know how to get them positioned so that they cannot stop your draw...and THAT requires knowing something about fighting.

    Another issue is that you simply cannot shoot someone who punches you in the nose or comes up and grabs you. So if you are accosted by a SINGLE unarmed individual and there is not an OBVIOUS disparity of force issue (ie you are old he is young ,he is huge you are small , he is Chuck Liddell and you are not, etc) and you pull a gun and smoke him, then you are going to have some serious legal ramifications to deal with.

    Guns are not talismans that ward off evil. Cops get killed every year with their OWN guns because they do not know how to fight effectively during a disarm attempt.
    Head of nail meet hammer ^
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  10. #100
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    I am well aware of purse carry but one thing sometimes forgotten is that you dont even have to draw it to shoot...you can shoot from within the purse.

    Like everything else, you must practice. For this, I practiced aiming, body postures, and adjusting the cant of the holster in the purse. Also, with a semi-auto, you are likely to only get one shot that way before drawing and racking the slide, because the slide will probably be hung up in the purse.

    *in practice* I can even shove my bag around to the back and shoot someone behind me. (I often carry with my hand inside the purse, on my gun...esp in parking lots, etc)

    For a normal draw, if my hand is already inside the purse, on the gun, my cross-draw is almost as fast as my regular holster draw (for me, in IDPA practice).

    Mostly however, I depend on being very observant in those locations, & in general.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #101
    Member Array AllAbtSlfDef's Avatar
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    You practice, alot by the sounds of it. But when you have your hand on your gun, where are your keys when walking thru the lot?
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllAbtSlfDef View Post
    You practice, alot by the sounds of it. But when you have your hand on your gun, where are your keys when walking thru the lot?
    Depends, but both purses have a shallow pocket on the front where I keep them while shopping. They may be in there, in my coat pocket (on weak side) or in my weak hand (most likely with packages or shopping bag....and I recognize it's likely both hands may have bags. Best I can come up with is be sure of any threats lurking near the car so I can drop them....and I dont walk around the vehicle to check there...altho most likely, the bg wouldnt know which was my car.)

    I can stabilize the purse with them in my weak hand (purse must be held to enable a clean draw).

    Please let me know what weaknesses you see? I could also run into similar issues with pepper spray.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  13. #103
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllAbtSlfDef View Post
    You practice, alot by the sounds of it. But when you have your hand on your gun, where are your keys when walking thru the lot?
    I prefer to have my car key that is attached to my OC in my non-dominant hand. If it is connected to my OC, I hold the OC while it is attached to my car keys. If a key is all I have, I can hold it inside my fingers yet align the key with my thumb and can be used as a jabbing or raking weapon if needs be, as taught by renowned combatives trainer, Kelly McCann. The stuff about placing a key between your fingers to use as a weapon is ridiculous and you can end up hurting the palm of your hand if you make contact with the area you intend to strike.

  14. #104
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    Correct about hurting your hand, the problem I see with walking around with your hand on your gun especially with packages in your hands is that you will need to let go of it at some point while putting packages away or retrieving keys etc. Also here's a thought.

    Why are we taught to index our trigger finger on the frame? To avoid an AD, also in some LEO circles to avoid the startle shoot. Right? If you are walking with your hand on your gun and ready to draw, not thinking of other options if you are thinking " if I am attacked I will just draw and shoot" well if you get it ingrained in your nugget that that is the proper thing to do and you practice that you are most likely to do it. So when the stranger walks up to you ," Hey, excuse me..." Brain thinks oh sh*t time to react, draw and shoot. you don't hear the "..where is the library?"

    This has happened to me. I did not shoot anyone, I was the person doing an approach. We were training a group of Guardian Angels. The drill was basically the same a shoot, don't shoot. Only no guns it was hands on and verbal. I approached 4 people and put them in a situation where I needed to go to the ground. Well when I got to person 5 her was so used to seeing it that when I asked "Can you tell me where the library is?" He screamed "NO!!! GET AWAY FROM ME....BACK OFF!!!" He was not using his common sense he was relying on his mental triggers and muscle memory. If he had a gun I would have been dead. Just food for thought.

    Sorry to ramble.

    Jason
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  15. #105
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    LOL, I have gotten it so ingrained not to put my finger on the trigger that I walk around carrying the power drill that way! And the water pistol I carry to discipline my blue heeler.

    I also have a manual thumb safety that I have to disengage...I practice this too.

    I recognize there are no guarantees and that no plan is foolproof...but I surely hope that no one will be able to get that close to me before identifying themselves or their intent.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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