What if you have the open shot?? - Page 4

What if you have the open shot??

This is a discussion on What if you have the open shot?? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; It depends a lot on my position in relation to the LEO. If I'm to his rear, I'd be hesitant to start shooting, fearing the ...

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Thread: What if you have the open shot??

  1. #46
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    It depends a lot on my position in relation to the LEO. If I'm to his rear, I'd be hesitant to start shooting, fearing the LEO might think he's got BGs front and back, thus making me a threat.

    If I were visiable to the LEO, I'd hope he could clearly see my firearm was pointed toward the BG and understand I was his "civilian backup."

    Overall, I think the answer is yes, I'd take the shot. I don't think there would be any risk of being arrested under those circumstances. Who's going to press the charges, the LEO I just assisted?
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield


  2. #47
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    It depends a lot on my position in relation to the LEO. If I'm to his rear, I'd be hesitant to start shooting, fearing the LEO might think he's got BGs front and back, thus making me a threat.

    If I were visiable to the LEO, I'd hope he could clearly see my firearm was pointed toward the BG and understand I was his "civilian backup."

    Overall, I think the answer is yes, I'd take the shot. I don't think there would be any risk of being arrested under those circumstances. Who's going to press the charges, the LEO I just assisted?
    i dont think anyone believes you would be arrested...the concern is drawing the leo attention toward you as another threat with a gun...in the heat of a battle nobody is going to be spending a lot of time trying to decide whos pointing at who...and in some instances even off duty or plainclothes police officers have been in difficult situations as they were unidentifyable as officers in shooting situations...they have been drawn on and held at gunpoint until identified....

    there ahve been situations where civilians have stepped in and assisted officers...mostly when the situation was at a point where the officer was down and had no defense (example...during a traffic stop a person overcame an officer and had gained control of his firearm...a civilian stepped in and shot the bad guy...officer was unable to defend himself)....

    the concern here is whether assisting the officer would draw his attention from his task or possibly draw unwanted attention toward you...

    unlike a video game or movie scenario when things are actually moving along quickly an officer seeeing another gun displayed is very likely to assess it as another threat...another possible concern is multiple cfl holders and someone drawing down on you thinking you are a threat...you may not be the only person in the place with a gun...

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I wonder what the four Lakewood, Wa officers would say (if they could) about ccw'r aid.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    Pop smoke and call for an air strike.

  5. #50
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    this is such a ridiculous scenario, it all becomes a game at this point. so i'll play the game.

    I would not die for a cop. i'd let them shoot it out. the cop likely has 3 times as many rounds as the bad guy. if the bad guy won, i'd pop him if he stayed on the scene and became a threat to me.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    If I had an opportune chance to take out the BG in this scenario, I would probably take the shot....hopefully while the BG is attempting a reload or something so long as the BG is in my full view and no chance of innocents downrange or in between. I would have ascertained by this time that there are no accomplices such as maybe the getaway driver coming in to the rescue.
    getaway drivers never come to the rescue. this isnt hollywood. bad guys run when shots are fired.

  7. #52
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    I wonder what the four Lakewood, Wa officers would say (if they could) about ccw'r aid.
    that situation was over before you could have reacted to it and it probably would have resulted in your death also...it was a totally unannounced and next to impossible attack to defend..they were sitting ducks and other than the one who managed to make it out to the lot it was over before it began...time doesnt stand still for you when you get involved...it moves fast...4 of them were caught off guard and you would have as well...it wouldnt have been as easy as you think it was...you dont have the advantage of watching it unfold like on tv...you need to assess and react...and that takes time when something fast and violent is happening...

    more than likely you would have been changing your seating position to get off the pile you left in your pants before you had time to draw your firearm and react to it...

    again...most gunfights are short lived unless they involve assailants with body armor...then your best defense is get the heck out of dodge...

  8. #53
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    that situation was over before you could have reacted to it and it probably would have resulted in your death also...it was a totally unannounced and next to impossible attack to defend..they were sitting ducks and other than the one who managed to make it out to the lot it was over before it began...time doesnt stand still for you when you get involved...it moves fast...4 of them were caught off guard and you would have as well...it wouldnt have been as easy as you think it was...you dont have the advantage of watching it unfold like on tv...you need to assess and react...and that takes time when something fast and violent is happening...

    more than likely you would have been changing your seating position to get off the pile you left in your pants before you had time to draw your firearm and react to it...

    again...most gunfights are short lived unless they involve assailants with body armor...then your best defense is get the heck out of dodge...
    First paragraph: My point was that I believe that in a dire situation a cop would welcome assistance even if it was not from another cop. I did not imply that a difference could hve been made, although it might have. Nor did I imply that it would be easy. I am well aware of the other things, having been in a significant number of violent situations.

    Second paragraph: You don't know me from Adam, or my experience, or how I would react.

    Paragraph three: I am well aware of how most gunfights unfold. Circumstances dictate your best defense, if that is your only goal.

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    If I could put a end to shooting with out injuring other customers or the LEO I would take the shot. The first thing i would is call 911.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    I'm still trying to figure out where all the "cover" is in a fast food restaurant (as stated by the OP, both BG and LEO have cover). JMO
    Behind the trash can, of course. You know it hasn't been emptied in a week and is packed tighter than passengers on a discount airliner!
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    i dont think anyone believes you would be arrested...the concern is drawing the leo attention toward you as another threat with a gun...in the heat of a battle nobody is going to be spending a lot of time trying to decide whos pointing at who...and in some instances even off duty or plainclothes police officers have been in difficult situations as they were unidentifyable as officers in shooting situations...they have been drawn on and held at gunpoint until identified....

    there ahve been situations where civilians have stepped in and assisted officers...mostly when the situation was at a point where the officer was down and had no defense (example...during a traffic stop a person overcame an officer and had gained control of his firearm...a civilian stepped in and shot the bad guy...officer was unable to defend himself)....

    the concern here is whether assisting the officer would draw his attention from his task or possibly draw unwanted attention toward you...

    unlike a video game or movie scenario when things are actually moving along quickly an officer seeeing another gun displayed is very likely to assess it as another threat...another possible concern is multiple cfl holders and someone drawing down on you thinking you are a threat...you may not be the only person in the place with a gun...
    I think I answered that in my reply.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  12. #57
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    I'm kind of 50/50 on this one. Before I got my permit, I asked a cop what he thought of civilians who had a chl. he told me he loved the idea because "You (meaning me) might save my life one day." Granted we live in a small town where everyone knows everyone.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    It would really depend on the situation at the time but I'd be inclined to let the officer handle it. If I could pop the BG out of sight from the officer (around a corner?) and be disarmed by the time he hit the floor then maybe. I definitely down want to get popped by the officer after I introduce another weapon to the party.

    Myself as well I think.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  14. #59
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Guardian
    My thoughts also, except retired military or good guy and follow the rest. I couldn't stand by, just couldn't not with the scenario presented open shot and all.

    Absolutly x2...in Oregon you are justified in defending life as if it were your own

    Same in Florida
    "You will not rise to the occasion and you will not default to your level of training. You WILL ONLY default to the level of training you have mastered."
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  15. #60
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    There are far too many variables here. Best advice is to take cover. If you can, make eye contact witht he LEO. Then you can convey your intention and hopefully end the encounter quickly. Preferably without bloodshed, but if it must be, then the BG lying bleeding form a gaping chest wound.

    And if the LEO falls... all bets are off!
    "You will not rise to the occasion and you will not default to your level of training. You WILL ONLY default to the level of training you have mastered."
    -Ruger P345; LCP
    -Mossberg 590A1; Model 42
    -Phoenix Arms Raven

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