Gun Ban LEO & Military question

This is a discussion on Gun Ban LEO & Military question within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am asking that this thread be closed. Initially I thought that this was a fair question, one that has been posed to civilians on ...

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Thread: Gun Ban LEO & Military question

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    I am asking that this thread be closed.
    Initially I thought that this was a fair question, one that has been posed to civilians on this and other forums more than once. As not one single LEO or Soldier has answered this question. I have reconsidered. It is not the same. In retrospect it is apparent to me that I have asked this question in an unfair format. That any LEO or soldier answering this question would open themselves to ridicule and criticism. Either from forum members or their peers. Or worst put their livelihood at risk. That is not my intent or desire. All those who have dedicated their lives to the service of our communities and nation deserve more consideration that that. So I am withdrawing the question and asking that this thread be closed, until I can ask it in a more appropriate way. Thank you to those who participated
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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  3. #17
    Member Array Recon4Life2's Avatar
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    I don't know about the other branches of the military, but the Army has their "Army Values". In the Army's 7 core values..Loyalty is described as "Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit and other Soldiers." That is the priority of being loyal.

  4. #18
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    Longrider very well said.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    US Armed Forces Oath of Enlistment

    I, Treo, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

    No where in there did I swear to blindly "protect this country against its enemies" I swore to support, deffend and bear true faith and allegiance to the US Constitution. Obeying an order to violate the Second Amendment would be in direct conflict.

    Ok I fixed it
    (Lets see if I get hammered for this...)

    I understand what you are saying, and I, like many others, took this oath. One of the problems I see, and this is true here and with a lot of other things that have been written is that the oath/statement/amendment is a "complex" statement.

    There were six words in bold, what about the rest of them. If you chose to just obey those 6, you will probably turn out to be a test case, just like so many other discussions we have around here. By "defending" the Constitution and ignoring the rest, you are ignoring the obedience and discipline portions of the oath.

    Also, no one has mentioned rank. I can see an Officer or senior NCO questioning the orders a lot quicker that a PFC.

    This is far from a simple question, and I'll admit, I'd love to know how it would play out under the UCMJ!

    (Also it looks like you do have opinions from some LEOs and military.)
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    I am asking that this thread be closed.
    Initially I thought that this was a fair question, one that has been posed to civilians on this and other forums more than once. As not one single LEO or Soldier has answered this question. I have reconsidered. It is not the same. In retrospect it is apparent to me that I have asked this question in an unfair format. That any LEO or soldier answering this question would open themselves to ridicule and criticism. Either from forum members or their peers. Or worst put their livelihood at risk. That is not my intent or desire. All those who have dedicated their lives to the service of our communities and nation deserve more consideration that that. So I am withdrawing the question and asking that this thread be closed, until I can ask it in a more appropriate way. Thank you to those who participated
    You have some LEOs/Retired folks who did answer this question my friend. We just answered it the way we see it being answered. I don't personally care about ridicule or any of that horse crap. I answered it as in it won't happen.

    If I wanted to answer it any other way, I would go into a long boring detailed explaination that I just hate to say "I wouldn't do it" back when I was in or if I was called back today. I support the Constitution all the way, what it says, I stand for, but then we go into those long boring explainations that I hate.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    I don't think I could do it. The very citizen I swore to protect I would be leaving defenseless?
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  8. #22
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    " and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. "

    Seeing as the vast majority of enlisted personnel, who perform the vast majority of military operations, are no more than high school educated, the question of whether they could "lawfully" confiscate firearms during a "state of emergency" is far too complicated for any barracks lawyers to answer.

    It would be interesting to get a legal opinion on this, but I'll stick with my original opinion that most enlisted personnel would not be willing to disobey such an order. Short of taking a life, the normal procedure would be to follow orders first and question afterwards. At least that was the procedure in my day.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    I am asking that this thread be closed.
    Initially I thought that this was a fair question, one that has been posed to civilians on this and other forums more than once. As not one single LEO or Soldier has answered this question. I have reconsidered. It is not the same. In retrospect it is apparent to me that I have asked this question in an unfair format. That any LEO or soldier answering this question would open themselves to ridicule and criticism. Either from forum members or their peers. Or worst put their livelihood at risk. That is not my intent or desire. All those who have dedicated their lives to the service of our communities and nation deserve more consideration that that. So I am withdrawing the question until I can ask it in a more appropriate way
    Closed at OP's request.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Ummm....still open.

    For the record...I would question the order in relation to the U.S. Constitution. It's my duty to question orders such as this. My next action would be based on the answer provided and taken up the chain of command.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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  11. #25
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Bingo , we're talking about the same government that can't even coordinate hot chow and mail in the field and you think they're going to pull of a nationwide gun grab?
    I have to post this just because I really want to see what it looks like in black and white print:

    I agree with Treo.
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

  12. #26
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    Whoops. Its closed now.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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