May 24th, 2010 02:17 AM
I am asking that this thread be closed.
Initially I thought that this was a fair question, one that has been posed to civilians on this and other forums more than once. As not one single LEO or Soldier has answered this question. I have reconsidered. It is not the same. In retrospect it is apparent to me that I have asked this question in an unfair format. That any LEO or soldier answering this question would open themselves to ridicule and criticism. Either from forum members or their peers. Or worst put their livelihood at risk. That is not my intent or desire. All those who have dedicated their lives to the service of our communities and nation deserve more consideration that that. So I am withdrawing the question and asking that this thread be closed, until I can ask it in a more appropriate way. Thank you to those who participated
Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution
Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family
May 24th, 2010 02:21 AM
I don't know about the other branches of the military, but the Army has their "Army Values". In the Army's 7 core values..Loyalty is described as "Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit and other Soldiers." That is the priority of being loyal.
May 24th, 2010 06:45 AM
Longrider very well said.
"A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013
May 24th, 2010 07:51 AM
(Lets see if I get hammered for this...)
Originally Posted by Treo
I understand what you are saying, and I, like many others, took this oath. One of the problems I see, and this is true here and with a lot of other things that have been written is that the oath/statement/amendment is a "complex" statement.
There were six words in bold, what about the rest of them. If you chose to just obey those 6, you will probably turn out to be a test case, just like so many other discussions we have around here. By "defending" the Constitution and ignoring the rest, you are ignoring the obedience and discipline portions of the oath.
Also, no one has mentioned rank. I can see an Officer or senior NCO questioning the orders a lot quicker that a PFC.
This is far from a simple question, and I'll admit, I'd love to know how it would play out under the UCMJ!
(Also it looks like you do have opinions from some LEOs and military.)
EOD - Initial success or total failure
May 24th, 2010 08:21 AM
You have some LEOs/Retired folks who did answer this question my friend. We just answered it the way we see it being answered. I don't personally care about ridicule or any of that horse crap. I answered it as in it won't happen.
Originally Posted by LongRider
If I wanted to answer it any other way, I would go into a long boring detailed explaination that I just hate to say "I wouldn't do it" back when I was in or if I was called back today. I support the Constitution all the way, what it says, I stand for, but then we go into those long boring explainations that I hate.
"I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"
May 24th, 2010 08:22 AM
I don't think I could do it. The very citizen I swore to protect I would be leaving defenseless?
There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
May 24th, 2010 09:16 AM
" and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. "
Seeing as the vast majority of enlisted personnel, who perform the vast majority of military operations, are no more than high school educated, the question of whether they could "lawfully" confiscate firearms during a "state of emergency" is far too complicated for any barracks lawyers to answer.
It would be interesting to get a legal opinion on this, but I'll stick with my original opinion that most enlisted personnel would not be willing to disobey such an order. Short of taking a life, the normal procedure would be to follow orders first and question afterwards. At least that was the procedure in my day.
Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
"For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield
May 24th, 2010 10:50 AM
Closed at OP's request.
Originally Posted by LongRider
May 24th, 2010 12:31 PM
For the record...I would question the order in relation to the U.S. Constitution. It's my duty to question orders such as this. My next action would be based on the answer provided and taken up the chain of command.
- know the difference
is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
May 24th, 2010 12:42 PM
I have to post this just because I really want to see what it looks like in black and white print:
Originally Posted by Treo
I agree with Treo.
May 24th, 2010 05:33 PM
Whoops. Its closed now.
By dcb188 in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
Last Post: September 25th, 2013, 12:29 AM
By Random in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
Last Post: December 1st, 2009, 04:21 PM
By Sig229 in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
Last Post: July 29th, 2007, 10:37 PM
By cagueits in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
Last Post: February 22nd, 2007, 12:30 AM
By elrey718 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
Last Post: February 21st, 2007, 06:54 PM
Search tags for this page
5152 firearm ban
would leo comply with gun ban
Click on a term to search for related topics.
» DefensiveCarry Sponsors