Gun Ban LEO & Military question

This is a discussion on Gun Ban LEO & Military question within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The reason I am asking is this question I have been doing some reading about Katrina and I was amazed that I can not find ...

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Thread: Gun Ban LEO & Military question

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    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Gun Ban LEO & Military question

    The reason I am asking is this question I have been doing some reading about Katrina and I was amazed that I can not find any instance where Military or LEO refused to follow orders when they were told to confiscate guns.

    You are called in. You and all available personal LEO and military are assigned with the task of doing a door to door search and confiscate all guns from every civilian. This will be a full on military operation using methods and tactics established and proven in combat in other hostile areas in the world. Rumor has it that UN forces are en route to provide support if there is resistance. The orders come as a result of the Uniform Anti Terrorist Act passed by congress and signed by the President. What would you do honestly? Have you ever considered this ever happening?
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    I don't think there is any question that there are military and LEO's in this United States that would follow orders to disarm and even to kill citizens in such a horrible scenario as you bring up.

    Not all would, but there are some, maybe more than we would believe. It has happened before with civil unrest and protest.

    What I question is the ability and commitment of the American citizens to actually resist such a gun grab.

    Would you, without question, fire upon military or police personnel who were asking or ordering for your guns to be surrendered?
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    This is two posts in, and already borderline rule breaking. I understand its all hypothetical but it is a fine line.

    The Katrina example is a different scenario than a wide spread nation wide gun grab. If it were to happen, you will see two camps; One that blindly follows orders, and the others who will protect the constitution. From my experience with both military and LE, I have to say those who will protect the constitution will be the majority.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    The logistics of the proposition makes the question irrelevant.

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    See: Conservative Stronghold - Oath Keepers Proves That There WERE Troops Who Refused to Confiscate Guns During Katrina

    However--I believe this discussion might be more appropriate over at C-S...
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    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    The logistics of the proposition makes the question irrelevant.
    Bingo , we're talking about the same government that can't even coordinate hot chow and mail in the field and you think they're going to pull of a nationwide gun grab?

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    I can't speak for LEOs but the poor GI is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    The service men take an oath to protect the country against its enemies, "both domestic and foreign." They are swear to obey the "lawful" orders of their superiors.

    Hypothedically speaking, would (or should) the seizure of civilian weapons in a "time of emergency" or otherwise been seen as part of an "unlawful" search and seizure? That could only be settled in the courts afterwards, and it's highly unlikely that a low-ranking enlisted serviceman would be willing to pit his interpretation of what may or may not be a lawful order of that level against a term in prison for disobeying an order.

    The LEO may get fired for disobeying; the GI may do time!

    This type of thing is exactly where the "I was just following orders" defense come from.

    Oh, on the lighter side-- The UN troops would be us, with a few Brits thrown in for good measure.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
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    Having been at Hurricane Katrina, and being a military Logistics NCO, this actually would have been an easy mission to accomplish (on paper). Here is the hard, and more important, part...This would be an unlawful order, which under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), soldiers are not required to follow. Most of us are gun owners our selves and I can assure you, would not follow this order!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandman1212 View Post
    Having been at Hurricane Katrina, and being a military Logistics NCO, this actually would have been an easy mission to accomplish (on paper). Here is the hard, and more important, part...This would be an unlawful order, which under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), soldiers are not required to follow. Most of us are gun owners our selves and I can assure you, would not follow this order!
    Using Katrina as an example, there were those that did indeed confiscate guns though. Nothing came of it as to consequences for those that "followed orders".
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
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    I want to say the U.N. troops are usually us and the Brits as mentioned and any other troops would not be welcomed on American soil period, therefore, trouble would be happening from the get go.

    As far as Anti-Terrorist act, during a national emergency, someone would have a hard time declaring American Gun Owners terrorist under this such an act under such conditions. You have thrown in all the emergency situations that would require the disarming of the American public, I just don't see it happening.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

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    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I can't speak for LEOs but the poor GI is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    The service men take an oath to protect the country against its enemies, "both domestic and foreign." They are swear to obey the "lawful" orders of their superiors.

    US Armed Forces Oath of Enlistment

    I, Treo, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

    No where in there did I swear to blindly "protect this country against its enemies" I swore to support, deffend and bear true faith and allegiance to the US Constitution. Obeying an order to violate the Second Amendment would be in direct conflict.

    Ok I fixed it
    Last edited by Treo; May 23rd, 2010 at 10:38 PM.

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    Although this has nothing to do with the confiscation of weapons, it does have something to do with the lengths of which our government will go and of the loyalty that is given to the orders of our government. Sad but true, just read the attached link.

    The Bonus Army

    http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/bonusarmy.htm

    http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/bonusm.htm

    Would or could this EVER apply to the confiscation ofcitizen's weapons????? You decide!!!!!
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

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    Too many unknown variables.
    Circumstances will weigh in; a well organized PR campaign might make a big difference.
    However, I see this scenario very unlikely.
    It will be a gradual erosion of the gun rights, one small step at a time.
    A major factor is to endoctrinate the kids that "guns are bad" then wait 15-20 years ...
    oh, wait, you mean it has already started ???
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

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    Treo, you are 'nit picking' OldVet's post. (Jus' sayin').

    Also, you incorrectly wrote 'violate', as 'vilote' (sic). (Jus' nit pickin')
    Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is No Vice--Moderation in the Pursuit of Justice is No Virtue. - Senator Barry Goldwater

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    I can't imagine this confiscation taking place without a tremendous resistance. Firstly would be the political rhetoric, speech making, chest thumping. This would probably take months. The litigation by various groups would further tie up the works.

    I cannot imagine the law enforcement officers in TX arbitrarily rounding up guns and or people. Likewise I cannot imagine any of the southern states complying.

    U.S. troops are not to be used on U.S. soil against Americans. If U.S. troops were ordered to trump civilian law enforcement I think the result would be a civil war or revolution. I think if any president was to make such an order he/she, at the least, would be impeached.

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