real life scenario from this past week...

This is a discussion on real life scenario from this past week... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by cdwolf I couldn't stand there and watch a guy beat a women to death with a rock Right or wrong, I couldn't ...

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Thread: real life scenario from this past week...

  1. #61
    Senior Member Array Andy W.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdwolf View Post
    I couldn't stand there and watch a guy beat a women to death with a rock
    Right or wrong, I couldn't either.
    America: Your government is not ignoring you, it's insulting you.

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  3. #62
    Member Array TomD's Avatar
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    Sit back and watch the gene pool drain.......

  4. #63
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    Yeah--I'd have a hard time simply standing by--BUT--back to the OP-

    -we all know that Domestics are the most hazardous calls for LEOs--you intervene and suddenly YOU become the focus of rage and anger.

    So, in this real-life incident--it seems foolish to physicaally wade into the middle of the 6 person drunken brawl by yourself to attempt to stop the guy with the rock bashing the womans' head--so you'd have to stand off at a safe distance to shoot the guy (assuming you'd get a clear shot without using an innocent victim as a backstop)--but he has 3 to 5 additional friends--am I (are we) prepared to shoot the other 3 guys when they rush me(us)???
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  5. #64
    New Member Array King James's Avatar
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    Of course!!! If I were to shoot their friend, and they stop and come and me, presumably the only guy on the scene with a gun, with rocks and 2x4s, they'd open themselves up for it.

    I've heard that you should never bring a knife to a gun fight, and I'd also add sticks and rocks to the list.
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  6. #65
    Member Array guardmt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King James View Post
    Of course!!! If I were to shoot their friend, and they stop and come and me, presumably the only guy on the scene with a gun, with rocks and 2x4s, they'd open themselves up for it.

    I've heard that you should never bring a knife to a gun fight, and I'd also add sticks and rocks to the list.
    Lol good point
    “What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pike

  7. #66
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomD View Post
    Sit back and watch the gene pool drain.......
    Good point..
    It also matters what state your in as to how the populace would react..
    I would be willing to bet the sit back and watch happens more in New York and the likes, then in Mississippi.
    We the people,we elected them,were on the juries, and voted on the laws. In certain States we are protected from civil damages, and can use what ever force is needed to make them stop(see previous post).
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

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  8. #67
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Davies View Post
    Yeah--I'd have a hard time simply standing by--BUT--back to the OP-

    -we all know that Domestics are the most hazardous calls for LEOs--you intervene and suddenly YOU become the focus of rage and anger.

    So, in this real-life incident--it seems foolish to physicaally wade into the middle of the 6 person drunken brawl by yourself to attempt to stop the guy with the rock bashing the womans' head--so you'd have to stand off at a safe distance to shoot the guy (assuming you'd get a clear shot without using an innocent victim as a backstop)--but he has 3 to 5 additional friends--am I (are we) prepared to shoot the other 3 guys when they rush me(us)???
    Yes, At that point they Know the amount of force you are willing to use.
    It would take a psycho to rush someone holding a pistol (right after his friend just got shot) with a rock in his hand. If they rush you then,you have no choice but to defend yourself the best way you can ,and hope you and these criminals make the right decisions .
    I pray I'm never put in that situation..
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  9. #68
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Tough call Scott.

    One thing to keep in mind is that you have now put yourself in a great deal of danger and are outnumbered....in this area, 3 people have been killed by trying to stop fights, and at least one was killed by a blow to the head, not even shot.

    And you cant be sure that none have a gun or knife. I'd say it's up to the particulars, esp if you personally have a quick exit for escape, & your skill levels.
    Fortune favors the bold.

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    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  10. #69
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    The best thing to do would be to get behind some cover, then yell at the guy hitting the woman with the rock, "STOP! I've called the police and they are on their way!". This even though my instinct would be to shoot the guy because I'd want to save someone's life. Why do that instead of shoot? You might win in the ensuing criminal case, but you could loose in a civil lawsuit. That woman just might go after you. Imagine this scenario: you are sitting in that courtroom, with the woman crying and saying, "I don't know why he shot my (boyfriend/husband/family member), we were just having a fight and we always make up. That monster took away my loved one and my sole support!". Maybe a medical examiner would testify about how that guy died a slow, painful death because you, a trigger-happy monster, wanted to shoot someone. You can also imagine what type of damage some of these lawyers could do. You'd be crucified in public and loose big-time.

    It'd be much better to shout at the guy from behind cover some distance away. Then, if they advanced on you in a threatening manner with that rock or other weapon, it's a clear case of self-defense.
    Last edited by Pinger; May 27th, 2010 at 06:35 AM. Reason: spacing
    The first rule of self-defense is to avoid the situation. The second rule is Train and Prepare.

  11. #70
    New Member Array DDDJetdriver's Avatar
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    WOW! Its seems as if most of these posters know what was actually happening.......did I miss something? I thought the OP said something to the effect of approaching the fight ALREADY IN PROGRESS..... Again I must clarify that I would want to bash this guy as well who is obviously overpowering this woman. Are there not laws in you states that would provent you from drawing on this guy if you cant prove HE started this??? What if you are wrong and he was out of control, but it was in counter to being provoked himself? How can you know? Now you go to jail......How will you protect your loved ones then? I am no coward I can assure you all, however if I am going to take a chance on drawing my weapon in a scenario I am unsure of, that risk is reserved for my loved ones. Trust me, if I knew that this was as one sided as it seemed, I would get involved with more that just a 911 call! I view it just like I would in using the weapon...KNOW whats behind your target! Consider whats behind this scenario! If you dont know....dont shoot. Again just my humble opinion.

  12. #71
    Member Array SigHawk's Avatar
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    Humble apologies

    Bark'n. You are correct that shooting into the air is not a safe practice. My apologies to the group. While I did state in my first post that firing straight up would result in terminal velocity (which is true), as mentioned, that would be very difficult to do. Even a slight angle could result in a lethal round. I won't be firing into the air and retract my statement that I would consider doing so in the situation. Again, my apologies for not further investigating. Thanks for keeping me on track.
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  13. #72
    Member Array Griffworks's Avatar
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    One thing I really like about these scenario discussions is that I take these back to my family for potential RL scenario talks. we've come up with a couple of plans thanks to them.

    So, thanks to all who presnt them and the responses, as well.
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    And spoons made Rosie O'Donnel fat.

  14. #73
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDDJetdriver View Post
    WOW! Its seems as if most of these posters know what was actually happening.......did I miss something? I thought the OP said something to the effect of approaching the fight ALREADY IN PROGRESS..... Again I must clarify that I would want to bash this guy as well who is obviously overpowering this woman. Are there not laws in you states that would provent you from drawing on this guy if you cant prove HE started this??? What if you are wrong and he was out of control, but it was in counter to being provoked himself? How can you know? Now you go to jail......How will you protect your loved ones then? I am no coward I can assure you all, however if I am going to take a chance on drawing my weapon in a scenario I am unsure of, that risk is reserved for my loved ones. Trust me, if I knew that this was as one sided as it seemed, I would get involved with more that just a 911 call! I view it just like I would in using the weapon...KNOW whats behind your target! Consider whats behind this scenario! If you dont know....dont shoot. Again just my humble opinion.
    when you find out the guy is actually defending himself because she pulled a gun on him....meaning he is as entitled to the use of deadly force as you are....and you draw on him...only to have one of her or his friends draw on you because youve introduced a gun to the scenario and are threatening one of their friends...ooooohhh the rabbit hole just keeps getting deeper...

    again a group of people who assumes that they are the only ones carrying firearms in public and are the only ones allowed to make judgement and shoot someone...

    sound like a long shot?...so is someone beating a woman with a rock in public with witnesses who have warned the police are on the way....2+2=5 here gang....

  15. #74
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    This is indeed a tough call.

    In SC, you assume all the rights and risks as if you are the victim; if you intervene.

    Deadly Force is only approved to the degree to which it takes to STOP the attack. In this case even if the woman had instigated the attack, she is NOW the victim. So, I think it would be fine "legally" to intervene. (I am not a lawyer! Don't take my opinion as gospel.)

    I really think the nurse did the right thing by moving the kid to safety and calling the police. However, I tend to line up with other guys here. I just could NOT stand-by and let ANYONE be murdered in front of me; (man or woman).

    On the other hand; I would NOT want to kill the childs daddy. (This happened to me; and I still suffer the consequences 40years later.) But, I would do WHATEVER it took to keep the man from potentially killing the baby's mama as well. (Whatever "whatever" is, is up for debate and IMPOSSIBLE to answer because I was not there.)

    Again; a VERY tough call and I'm glad I didn't have to make it.

  16. #75
    New Member Array DDDJetdriver's Avatar
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    Agreed Bladenbullet!

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