This is a discussion on real life scenario from this past week... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SigHawk Can we really say that these women are "used" to getting beaten simply because they aren't fighting back? And is it ...
Also, chances are this is a normal occurance for these people. If you attempt to intervene, the female could very well become an indignant moron and attack you herself. It happens all the time to police officers intervening during a domestic dispute, where the violence was far more heavier than the fighters hitting eachother with rocks and boards.
It's better to be a good witness.
With few exceptions, such as watching a man walk into a school yard, a playground, or church, and start opening fire. Clearly, there would be a necessity to end the threat to your life and others.
Everything else is risky, murky territory.
I was discussing this at a nice open carry BBQ we had here in PA yesterday. The THOUGHT, your MOTIVES, for intervening and protecting other people is right. The REALITY is you should just be a witness.
I'm glad that this thread has proven valuble as a discussion/learning point. I'm doubly glad that I personally, was not present for the actual incident.
In thinking through the incident and the implications of the incident, I thought it a good scenario to post about due the the multiple variables present (for example: all players were drunk; the women were being beaten and not resisting; one male participant delivering potentially leathal blows to the head; possible reprecussions from other players if intervention was attempted; presence of a child, etc.
Scott, US Army 1974-2004
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
- Ronald Reagan
This scenario seems to be just about the most perfect example of NOT MY BUSINESS!
I have a friend who has been impulsive enough to intervene three times when he saw a man hitting a woman. Every woman involved immediately attacked HIM. He's cured of the desire to "be a good citizen".
Women? A child? Boo hoo.
If I don't know 'em, I really don't care.
Unless you distance yourself from such a goat rodeo, the chances are good of the cops grabbing everyone so they can figure out the story.
Call 911, announce it, get the heck out of there.
Agreed. The deeper and more diverse the scenarios here, the better for me.
And even basic ones too. More people should read more real-life and possible scenarios. Just some BASIC plans for basic attacks would go a long way.
Here in Seattle, last yr....a mentally ill guy broke into a house with a knife, no gun. There were 2 women living there. He was able to rape and stab both, one died.
What? To me, if the 2 women had had some..any...kind of plan, they might have been unharmed, or at least much less so. It sounds like they just submitted and hoped he wouldnt kill them.
Argh, that is so upsetting. To me (and I dont use this word lightly) that is a sheep...and many women are brought up to behave and think like that
Fortune favors the bold.
Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.
The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)
I once dated this beautiful girl a few years ago who asked me why I hadn't hit her yet... I almost choked trying to comprehend what she said and reply.. apparently it's normal out here. All of her previous boyfriends beat her black and blue, her mother was beat, all of her female friends, they get beat by their boyfriends. I told her if someone laid a hand on a woman where I came from, they wouldn't have any hands left to think about doing it a second time..
Unfortunately people like this don't want help. women who are addicted to abuse often self sabotage. Needless to say I didn't stay with her. Anyone who thinks it's normal to be beaten by their partner has real problems.
The lady getting her head bashed in should have been a sober, Pro2A'er huh? I mean, you got your CCW for yourself and your family mainly right? Maybe she should have done the same and not be drunk and disorderly with the rest of 'em. They're grown people too and while that must have been a hard thing to watch, the toddler was the only one that was truly innocent. Let the pig with the rock live with his actions. In this situation, the CC'er doing the defending will only be the one sued by the one that was defended. Besides, I'm sure she's hell-bent on "changing him" and it should happen any minute.
Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME
Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.
First post, so hope this isn't out of line...
I agree with the 'call and stay out of it' approach.
I'm assuming it didn't look as though the woman was truly in danger of being killed - that the man didn't have a large rock in his hand and was trying to crush her skull. It would be different if he had a knife and was actively stabbing her. Yes, a rock MAY kill, but it isn't as likely. Blows to the body are less dangerous than blows to the head. If she is down on the ground it is different than if she is standing...and if I pull a gun, it may well escalate the violence in ways I haven't anticipated.
I just bought a gun for concealed carry - will take the class in 3 weeks, although AZ will stop requiring a class in August. I have a Ruger 44 Mag & 45 ACP, but for carry I bought a S&W Model 60. I haven't even had a chance to shoot it yet, but I already know it is a different feeling weapon.
With the 45 (or 44), I FEEL as though I'm in control. That isn't true, but I FEEL as though I have a weapon that can make people do what I want...a rather inaccurate & dangerous feeling, IMHO. With the Model 60 - a LadySmith, even! - the feeling is very different. 5 shots. Plan to load .38+P. Reloads will take a while. The 60LS is very much a weapon of last resort. It is what you pull when all else has failed. Although much more deadly than my J-frame 22, it feels even more like a 'last chance at life' gun.
And I think that is good for non-LEO CCW types. The truth is that I could shoot a man in the heart with my 44 Mag, and he'll still have enough useful consciousness left to shoot me back for 5-20". Much longer if a lung shot. And if there are multiple thugs - typical nowadays - taking the first shot may turn a fist fight into a gun battle, with innocent people nearby getting shot.
A gun doesn't make me a cop. A CCW permit doesn't replace police training. And 5 rounds of .38+P ain't right for stopping a half dozen men. Not unless I've already decided it is kill or be killed. A man has to know his limitations, I've heard. And carrying a 5 shot 38, MY limitations will normally include using it last ditch to protect my family or someone in immediate danger of dying. I don't expect to save the world.
NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.
If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.