real life scenario from this past week... - Page 6

real life scenario from this past week...

This is a discussion on real life scenario from this past week... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SigHawk Can we really say that these women are "used" to getting beaten simply because they aren't fighting back? And is it ...

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Thread: real life scenario from this past week...

  1. #76
    Member Array mirage2521's Avatar
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    Feb 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigHawk View Post
    Can we really say that these women are "used" to getting beaten simply because they aren't fighting back?
    And is it logical then to make the assumption that, even if they are used to it, they have "made their beds" and are somehow deserving of getting beaten to death?
    And what if the man doing the beating is indeed justified in the attack (or defense) because the woman was the initiator - does this mean that he is legally allowed to attack her after any threat she may have posed is clearly nonexistent now? It would appear that, if the woman was the initiator, her threat is clearly over, and the man's act of self-defense has now become assault, even if it is an "adrenaline dump." Again, just food for thought.
    I think removing the child from danger is the first move, followed by a 911 call, then a verbal warning to the attacker. I honestly think the savageness of the rock beating would motivate me to intervene in some form. I didn't ask to be put in that situation, but if I found myself in it, I could not stand by waiting for the police to arrive if the woman's life was clearly in immediate danger. Am I saying that I would pull my weapon? Not at first, but I would consider it if other methods did not work. I would even consider firing a few rounds in the air before pointing the weapon at someone.

    Your post seemed valid and credible, right up to the bolded sentence, then you went down hill quick. If that is a consideration of yours you should not even own a gun, much less carry one.
    You may now carry on with your absurd non-directional bantering.

  2. #77
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Davies View Post
    These additional facts caused me to re-evaluate my assessment: They are all drunk, but can I live with myself while watching some woman get her skull smashed in and potentially murdered right in front of my eyes while I have the means to intervene (8 rounds of hp .45) and yet do nothing???
    How do you know those women didn't just do something deserving of having their heads smashed in with a rock? Females commit acts of evil all the time. Not that taking justice into your own hands is ok, but what if you shot the guy beating the woman, and you came to find out afterwards that woman just stabbed his child to death 3 blocks away and he chased her down, for example. Wouldn't you feel bad you shot the man?

    Also, chances are this is a normal occurance for these people. If you attempt to intervene, the female could very well become an indignant moron and attack you herself. It happens all the time to police officers intervening during a domestic dispute, where the violence was far more heavier than the fighters hitting eachother with rocks and boards.

    It's better to be a good witness.
    With few exceptions, such as watching a man walk into a school yard, a playground, or church, and start opening fire. Clearly, there would be a necessity to end the threat to your life and others.

    Everything else is risky, murky territory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Davies View Post
    Yet, on the other hand, to try and wade in or to attempt to intervene, even from a safe distance, in a group like this is to invite big trouble. I might be prepared to shoot the guy with the rock bashing the woman's head, but am I willing/prepared to shoot the other 3 drunk guys when they rush me waving rocks and 2x4s??
    If you're not willing prepared to shoot, you shouldn't carry a gun. 3v1 and they have bludgeon weapons? You put yourself into that situation, so you better be prepared to act or die. You also have to consider putting yourself in that situation may put you in jail for LIFE.

    I was discussing this at a nice open carry BBQ we had here in PA yesterday. The THOUGHT, your MOTIVES, for intervening and protecting other people is right. The REALITY is you should just be a witness.

  3. #78
    VIP Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    I'm glad that this thread has proven valuble as a discussion/learning point. I'm doubly glad that I personally, was not present for the actual incident.

    In thinking through the incident and the implications of the incident, I thought it a good scenario to post about due the the multiple variables present (for example: all players were drunk; the women were being beaten and not resisting; one male participant delivering potentially leathal blows to the head; possible reprecussions from other players if intervention was attempted; presence of a child, etc.
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan

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  5. #79
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    Moving to Texas
    This scenario seems to be just about the most perfect example of NOT MY BUSINESS!

    I have a friend who has been impulsive enough to intervene three times when he saw a man hitting a woman. Every woman involved immediately attacked HIM. He's cured of the desire to "be a good citizen".

    Women? A child? Boo hoo.
    If I don't know 'em, I really don't care.

    Unless you distance yourself from such a goat rodeo, the chances are good of the cops grabbing everyone so they can figure out the story.

    Call 911, announce it, get the heck out of there.

  6. #80
    Ex Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griffworks View Post
    One thing I really like about these scenario discussions is that I take these back to my family for potential RL scenario talks. we've come up with a couple of plans thanks to them.

    So, thanks to all who presnt them and the responses, as well.

    Agreed. The deeper and more diverse the scenarios here, the better for me.

    And even basic ones too. More people should read more real-life and possible scenarios. Just some BASIC plans for basic attacks would go a long way.

    Here in Seattle, last yr....a mentally ill guy broke into a house with a knife, no gun. There were 2 women living there. He was able to rape and stab both, one died.

    What? To me, if the 2 women had had some..any...kind of plan, they might have been unharmed, or at least much less so. It sounds like they just submitted and hoped he wouldnt kill them.

    Argh, that is so upsetting. To me (and I dont use this word lightly) that is a sheep...and many women are brought up to behave and think like that

  7. #81
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisABQ View Post
    I have a friend who has been impulsive enough to intervene three times when he saw a man hitting a woman. Every woman involved immediately attacked HIM. He's cured of the desire to "be a good citizen".
    ^^This. 9 out of 10 times these domestic disputes involve women that can't live without the backhand of their lover. It's sad, it's sickening, and it's pathetic. The man is a scumbag, and the woman is too. It's a cycle, they're comfortable with it, and if you try to intervene, the females almost always become indignant, and attack the person who attempted to "do the right thing".

    I once dated this beautiful girl a few years ago who asked me why I hadn't hit her yet... I almost choked trying to comprehend what she said and reply.. apparently it's normal out here. All of her previous boyfriends beat her black and blue, her mother was beat, all of her female friends, they get beat by their boyfriends. I told her if someone laid a hand on a woman where I came from, they wouldn't have any hands left to think about doing it a second time..

    Unfortunately people like this don't want help. women who are addicted to abuse often self sabotage. Needless to say I didn't stay with her. Anyone who thinks it's normal to be beaten by their partner has real problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by TravisABQ View Post
    Call 911, announce it, get the heck out of there.
    You don't necessarily have to leave. Just observe and report, live feed, to the dispatcher, and then the responding officer if they transfer you. If you want to be the fool who attempts to intervene when you see a man and a woman knuckle to knuckle brawling in a restaurant parking lot, go ahead. When you end up in jail, or in the hospital, after the couple both turns on you, that's on you. Don't be suprised when you come to find the female is habitually attracted to men who beat her, and/or this has been going on for years with the same man.

  8. #82
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    The lady getting her head bashed in should have been a sober, Pro2A'er huh? I mean, you got your CCW for yourself and your family mainly right? Maybe she should have done the same and not be drunk and disorderly with the rest of 'em. They're grown people too and while that must have been a hard thing to watch, the toddler was the only one that was truly innocent. Let the pig with the rock live with his actions. In this situation, the CC'er doing the defending will only be the one sued by the one that was defended. Besides, I'm sure she's hell-bent on "changing him" and it should happen any minute.
    Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME

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  9. #83
    Ex Member Array bsms's Avatar
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    First post, so hope this isn't out of line...

    I agree with the 'call and stay out of it' approach.

    I'm assuming it didn't look as though the woman was truly in danger of being killed - that the man didn't have a large rock in his hand and was trying to crush her skull. It would be different if he had a knife and was actively stabbing her. Yes, a rock MAY kill, but it isn't as likely. Blows to the body are less dangerous than blows to the head. If she is down on the ground it is different than if she is standing...and if I pull a gun, it may well escalate the violence in ways I haven't anticipated.

    I just bought a gun for concealed carry - will take the class in 3 weeks, although AZ will stop requiring a class in August. I have a Ruger 44 Mag & 45 ACP, but for carry I bought a S&W Model 60. I haven't even had a chance to shoot it yet, but I already know it is a different feeling weapon.

    With the 45 (or 44), I FEEL as though I'm in control. That isn't true, but I FEEL as though I have a weapon that can make people do what I want...a rather inaccurate & dangerous feeling, IMHO. With the Model 60 - a LadySmith, even! - the feeling is very different. 5 shots. Plan to load .38+P. Reloads will take a while. The 60LS is very much a weapon of last resort. It is what you pull when all else has failed. Although much more deadly than my J-frame 22, it feels even more like a 'last chance at life' gun.

    And I think that is good for non-LEO CCW types. The truth is that I could shoot a man in the heart with my 44 Mag, and he'll still have enough useful consciousness left to shoot me back for 5-20". Much longer if a lung shot. And if there are multiple thugs - typical nowadays - taking the first shot may turn a fist fight into a gun battle, with innocent people nearby getting shot.

    A gun doesn't make me a cop. A CCW permit doesn't replace police training. And 5 rounds of .38+P ain't right for stopping a half dozen men. Not unless I've already decided it is kill or be killed. A man has to know his limitations, I've heard. And carrying a 5 shot 38, MY limitations will normally include using it last ditch to protect my family or someone in immediate danger of dying. I don't expect to save the world.

  10. #84
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilber View Post
    As it has been stated: late arrival, no intel into what is "really" going on, intervention with lethal force = potential bad times for you. I agree, at this point be a spectator, call 911 and let them sort it out.
    you never know who started the fight, or why it is going on.
    NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor

    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.

    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

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