real life scenario from this past week...

real life scenario from this past week...

This is a discussion on real life scenario from this past week... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I really appreciate this forum and the consistent respectful discussions that go on around self-defense issues, so here is a real life scenario to chew ...

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 84
  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    1,709

    real life scenario from this past week...

    I really appreciate this forum and the consistent respectful discussions that go on around self-defense issues, so here is a real life scenario to chew on and discuss:

    This did not happen to me, but this was related to me today by a nurse at the hospital where I am a Chaplain.

    The nurse and her husband came out of a building in Billings this Thursday and walked around a corner and saw a group of folks who were very drunk and they were brawling with each other. There were fist-sized rocks and boards involved. There was a group of people just standing and watching, so she called 911. Then she noticed a 2 yr old toddler standing some distance from the brawling group. She ran and picked up the little girl (she held the little girl and ended up cleaning her up some before the DFYS folks arrived to take the child into protective custody) several LEOs arrived, broke up the fight, and carted everybody off to the hospital or jail.

    Now, up to this point, as she related the story I'm thinking, "OK, she was a good wittness--[I'm also thinking that if I had been there, carrying, I would have done the same thing]. Then she added these facts: Of the six, two were women (who were also drunk) but the men were beating on the women as well as on each other, but the women were NOT fighting back--there was blood everywhere--and one of the men was repeatedly smashing one of the women in the head with a rock in his fist."

    These additional facts caused me to re-evaluate my assessment: They are all drunk, but can I live with myself while watching some woman get her skull smashed in and potentially murdered right in front of my eyes while I have the means to intervene (8 rounds of hp .45) and yet do nothing??? Yet, on the other hand, to try and wade in or to attempt to intervene, even from a safe distance, in a group like this is to invite big trouble. I might be prepared to shoot the guy with the rock bashing the woman's head, but am I willing/prepared to shoot the other 3 drunk guys when they rush me waving rocks and 2x4s??


    This seems a situation with no really good options and a lot of potential for multiple really bad outcomes. What are your thoughts!!!
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan


  2. #2
    VIP Member
    Array msgt/ret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    7,368
    Tough call, while it would be difficult to watch someone get beaten with any weapon armed or not six on one is very poor odds. I think the best course of action was the one carried out, rescue the child, call 911 and let the LEOs sort out the mess. Remember your weapons primary purpose is to protect yourself and loved ones.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

  3. #3
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    44,778
    That situation calls for witnessing only...take notes if you want to, but don't get involved. Getting the child out of the way could have created bigger problems...but it seems like it was a good thing to do.

    Shoot someone over a domestic battle? Then watch the woman/women attack you for shooting the boyfriend...no thanks.

    Sounds like a crowd just right for one another.
    Let the cops sort it out.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

  4. #4
    AzB
    AzB is offline
    Senior Member Array AzB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    557
    Dealing with drunks is always problematic as they're so unpredictable. I vote stay out of it until the po po arrive.

    It's hard for me to feel too sorry for people that purposefully put themselves into that position... and I'm sure it hasn't been the first time. I would be far more apt to intervene if they attacked someone who was not involved, or the child's well being was in danger. Otherwise, it's like breaking up a dog fight... you don't.

    Az
    Az

    -- Luck favors the well prepared.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    MS
    Posts
    2,261
    I couldn't stand there and watch a guy beat a women to death with a rock
    I agree,look out for yourself,but what kind of country have we become.
    If you know there's nothing you could do to help,by all means Don't. There's no since in adding to the victim list.

    As to what exactly I would do?? Have to be there to make that call,but it would be more then nothing........Stand there and watch...amazing...
    You could at least scream"the cops will be here in 6 minutes" as you run to a good bunker to watch from.
    I may have shot the guy hitting the women with the rock, If he didn't comply with "Stop" at that point it's up to the other 3 to decide what happens next.
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    3,411
    Coming in late to that scene, no intel, don't know any of the participants....

    It is a spectator sport. 911, observe and report. Keep a distance and yell out "The police are on the way!"

    Getting involved...no good can come of that.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  7. #7
    Member Array Wilber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    29
    As it has been stated: late arrival, no intel into what is "really" going on, intervention with lethal force = potential bad times for you. I agree, at this point be a spectator, call 911 and let them sort it out.
    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

    -Will Rogers

  8. #8
    Member Array gogriz91's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Middle GA
    Posts
    171
    Yelling that the cops are on the way may make them antagonistic towards you potentially changing the ROE into a less ambiguous scenario?
    Desperate people do desperate things in desperate situations.

    Heavily medicated for your protection.

    Kimber Tactical Custom II, SIS Pro

  9. #9
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    16,472
    "can I live with myself while watching some woman get her skull smashed in and potentially murdered right in front of my eyes while I have the means to intervene"

    That is a question only you can answer for yourself as there are many who would stand by and let it happen, thinking they shouldn't get involved, just as there are many who would intervene. You (should) know the state laws for a situation such as this in Montana, and I don't think any lawyer, prosecutor, or jurist would deny that a large rock or club is certainly a "lethal" weapon.

    But I'll throw this in:
    How many scenes such as this have you seen on CNN, etc., where people just stood by and let someone be murdered? The case in Chicago where the high school kid was beat to death and the crowd took pics? How do you feel when you see this on the news? Do you ask yourself, "Why didn't someone do something?"

    Food for thought.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,974
    Does it have to involve a gun? I mean if you can yell for help possibly alert a LEO passing by would that not be helping too? Yelling and making a ruckus might bring enough people for them to stop.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  11. #11
    VIP Member
    Array sigmanluke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,209
    What a horrible situation to walk onto. If I walked up as an off duty LEO, I would be calling 911, yelling to them that the police are on their way, and staying ready to defend myself. I would ONLY intervene if I felt it was possible to do so safely, or felt it was absolutely necessary. (I can't say for sure without being there.)

    I actually hate to say this, but the best thing to do is call 911 and be a good witness.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

  12. #12
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    16,472
    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Does it have to involve a gun? I mean if you can yell for help possibly alert a LEO passing by would that not be helping too? Yelling and making a ruckus might bring enough people for them to stop.
    It might, but my experience with drunks is they don't tend to listen.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    1,709
    Additional facts in this case: Montana's laws are really good in this regard, allowing folks to use deadly force to save someone from deadly assult, so IF a person decided that they had no other option but to shoot the guy with the rock, it would almost certainly deemed a good shoot.

    Also, there was ALREADY a group of people just standing and watching--all of whom had done nothing..........
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan

  14. #14
    Member Array Blownsvt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    208
    I think the biggest problem with this scenrio is the fact that we even have to ask ourselves what we would do. I think all of us knows what the "right" thing to do is based on our morals and that would be to stop a man from savagely beating a defenseless woman. It's sad that laws put us in a position where we have to fear for our freedom, financial well being etc from acting in this type of situation. Thats the only reason people are playing the be a witness card. Chances are this woman has seconds not minutes to wait for the police to arrive. If its my wife or myself who is the one getting bashed in the head with a rock I sure hope none of you decides to be a "good witness" to my death/disfigurement.
    I LOVE ME SOME HK's!

    RIP Mike, miss you buddy!

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    7,414
    What I live with in my state... the state statute on Reasonable force (bolding is my own):
    704.1 REASONABLE FORCE.
    "Reasonable force" is that force and no more which a
    reasonable person, in like circumstances, would judge to be necessary
    to prevent an injury or loss and can include deadly force if it is
    reasonable to believe that such force is necessary to avoid injury or
    risk to one's life or safety or the life or safety of another
    , or it
    is reasonable to believe that such force is necessary to resist a
    like force or threat. Reasonable force, including deadly force, may
    be used even if an alternative course of action is available if the
    alternative entails a risk to life or safety, or the life or safety
    of a third party,
    or requires one to abandon or retreat from one's
    dwelling or place of business or employment.
    So, if I use the force at my disposal, a concealed weapon, in this scenario; just "being a good witness" may entail the risk of life or safety of a third party. I MIGHT be justified in the use of deadly force to stop the threat to the women involved in the fracas.

    Would I do so..? Unknown until the situation presents itself to me...

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Real Life Scenario
    By WVConcealed in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: February 23rd, 2009, 09:35 AM
  2. Real Life Scenario
    By BlackPR in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: February 20th, 2009, 08:41 AM
  3. Real Life SHTF Scenario
    By Diesel 007 in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: February 20th, 2008, 05:22 PM
  4. Real life scenario , What would you do ?
    By speedlinehobbies in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: December 8th, 2006, 02:22 PM
  5. First Real Life Scenario
    By Mr. Clean in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: November 25th, 2006, 09:52 AM

Search tags for this page

real life scenarios for gun control

,

week four real life scenario

Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors