You're enjoying dinner in a classy establishment...

This is a discussion on You're enjoying dinner in a classy establishment... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Guantes Nothing wrong with an exchange of ideas. It is when the decorum degenerates that, IMO, the value of the whole thing ...

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Thread: You're enjoying dinner in a classy establishment...

  1. #151
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Nothing wrong with an exchange of ideas. It is when the decorum degenerates that, IMO, the value of the whole thing degenerates.

    There are so many things that change so fast in any violent situation, that real time modifications to planned responses are almost constant.
    absolutely...being the source of change can put you in the driver seat so to speak as you have less to react to and are already in motion...but it can have its disadvantages also...

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  3. #152
    Senior Member Array CCWFlaRuger's Avatar
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    Give him your wallet, the one with "Bad Mother F***er" on it. Just don't give up the briefcase with Marceles Wallace's soul.

    In all seriousness, by taking the shot, you are preventing the "Immenent death or great bodily harm" of everyone in the establishment.

    Just try to keep the gray matter out of my soup. THX

  4. #153
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCWFlaRuger View Post
    In all seriousness, by taking the shot, you are preventing the "Immenent death or great bodily harm" of everyone in the establishment.
    See...THIS is the problem I have with this type of answer.

    Of course, everyone is welcome to post their take on the scenario.
    But when this is what you post...and it's ALL that you post....*my concern* is that you have not thought thru all the things I've mentioned earlier....it sounds like an assumption that you think you'll doubletap him in the back/head and it's over.

    Yet in the majority of real shootouts, it takes multiple shots to bring down a bg and they are **almost never** disabled immediately. So even if they die *eventually*, they have a good chance of still shooting at you or other people.

    Again, this is my interpretation of this type of response....and that it's completely unrealistic and supposes that 'shooting' creates some 'clean' ending.....when by all accounts there is usually more action and collateral damage. Or that other patrons wont give them away before they can take the shot...or scream and panic when they see another gun?

    I am not saying that the poster didnt think of this...but when this is all they post, it really makes me question and hope that they have.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  5. #154
    Senior Member Array CCWFlaRuger's Avatar
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    I apologize, I should have been more clear. I assume that most CCW holders are fairly competent with their weapons and are able to hit a target at 10 feet, and given the scenario, the BG was less than 10 feet away (at the next table).

    Also, I neglected to mention that my preferred cary is a Ruger P345, loaded with Federal Hydra-Shok 230 grain. He is going to fall, and he is going to die. I don't aim for the head, I aim for center mass, and the BG will be -1 heart.

    I agree that there are more risks than reward here, however, I could not sit idly by while the lives of my wife, son, myself and everyone else in the establishment hang perilously on the trigger control of someone who obvioulsy is fairly unstable to begin with being that he has decided to hold up a crowded resturaunt.

    Also, as you can see, I am a new poster, so, thank you for opening my eyes. In the future, i will attempt to be more thorough with my explanations.

  6. #155
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Just to provide a balancing point. While one should never count on a one or two shot stop/drop it can/does happen. From personal experience, one shot, they drop and it is over permenantly.

  7. #156
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCWFlaRuger View Post
    I apologize, I should have been more clear. I assume that most CCW holders are fairly competent with their weapons and are able to hit a target at 10 feet, and given the scenario, the BG was less than 10 feet away (at the next table).

    Also, I neglected to mention that my preferred cary is a Ruger P345, loaded with Federal Hydra-Shok 230 grain. He is going to fall, and he is going to die. I don't aim for the head, I aim for center mass, and the BG will be -1 heart.

    I agree that there are more risks than reward here, however, I could not sit idly by while the lives of my wife, son, myself and everyone else in the establishment hang perilously on the trigger control of someone who obvioulsy is fairly unstable to begin with being that he has decided to hold up a crowded resturaunt.

    Also, as you can see, I am a new poster, so, thank you for opening my eyes. In the future, i will attempt to be more thorough with my explanations.

    Thanks & welcome. IMO, the more info, the more insights the rest of us can get from it.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  8. #157
    jfl
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    Distinguished Member Array jfl's Avatar
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    Good thread !
    Interesting and informative at first, then entertaining
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

    jfl
    (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)

  9. #158
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    My wife is putting her gun on right now and heading down to the restuarant to get her favorite blue berry cheese cake

  10. #159
    Member Array AllAbtSlfDef's Avatar
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    Now you are at the point of s**t or get off the pot, I think I would take the shot, if he comes to your table and demands your valueables you can't really say let me put my gun down and get my wallet lol. I say shoot.

    If possible have the mrs. call 911 and leave the phone line open so 911 can hear or do a 911 hang up so that they check well being in the cell's location.
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  11. #160
    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    Hear is something I think was not asked or questioned earlier. If he takes my wallet is the meal free?
    Second and more serious note. Something I thought about sense I do not carry anymore. In a restaurant like that I imagine they have stake knives. If he really did seam like a person that would go off the end, why not stab him between the second and third vertebrate when he was turned around?
    Now completely serious, I think any assumption no matter your weapon or skill level that everything will go right is fool hardy. Murphy’s law as mentioned earlier precludes any of that. in ten feet and a human body a lot can go wrong that would stop a kill from happening despite plans.

  12. #161
    Senior Member Array CCWFlaRuger's Avatar
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    Now completely serious, I think any assumption no matter your weapon or skill level that everything will go right is fool hardy. Murphy’s law as mentioned earlier precludes any of that. in ten feet and a human body a lot can go wrong that would stop a kill from happening despite plans.
    That is my point. If you are planning, then something will go wrong here. terribly, I might add. If you carry a weapon, you MUST be proficient with it. It is your duty to ensure that you have practiced, and practiced, and practiced until every movement, every action, is second nature. If you are planning, then you have already lost.

    This isn't an action movie, this is real life, and has the potential for real death. The BG dosen't fall down when you go "bang." Just having a gun does not make you safe. If you cannot use it, leave it home.
    "You will not rise to the occasion and you will not default to your level of training. You WILL ONLY default to the level of training you have mastered."
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  13. #162
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    My wife is putting her gun on right now and heading down to the restuarant to get her favorite blue berry cheese cake
    Was she going alone???
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  14. #163
    Member Array Back 40's Avatar
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    the cheese cake at PF Changs is terrific just as a little FYI. The wife and i were there to celibrate our anniversery last night and it was great and there was no gunman thank goodness.

  15. #164
    Distinguished Member Array old grunt's Avatar
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    Puffer..handled it expertly and that should be the example to follow(if possible). Great job and it reinforces everything I was taught about "off-duty" encounters.
    "We deal in lead friend">Steve McQueen The Magnificent Seven
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  16. #165
    Member Array sentioch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    i dont see a reason to not take the shot in this case....if its a clear lane and the shot is good its go time...
    I don't know if this has been mentioned before since it's a long thread, but the way the scenario has been described there are innocent people sitting behind the BG. That means shooting toward the BG is shooting in the direction of innocent bystanders.
    "In a world of compromise, some don't." -HK

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