Trying to fight while carrying. - Page 3

Trying to fight while carrying.

This is a discussion on Trying to fight while carrying. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Guantes While I agree with most herein, depending on circumstances, I do not agree with the following. "A BG can easily cover ...

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Thread: Trying to fight while carrying.

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    While I agree with most herein, depending on circumstances, I do not agree with the following. "A BG can easily cover 20-25 feet before you can get out your gun and fire."
    That'd be a terrible mistake to make... takes only a second or so to cover that gap
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  2. #32
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    also keep in mind, shooting the charging target even if you have a quick draw...he/she won't sop instantly
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  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    That'd be a terrible mistake to make... takes only a second or so to cover that gap
    A second or two is 4 or 5, to 8 or 10 shots. Have you experimented with it in FoF. I have.

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    also keep in mind, shooting the charging target even if you have a quick draw...he/she won't sop instantly
    While one should not count on an instant stop, it does happen. I have personal experience on that.

  5. #35
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    While I agree with most herein, depending on circumstances, I do not agree with the following. "A BG can easily cover 20-25 feet before you can get out your gun and fire."
    Here's one video for you to check out. There are others; just google "Tueller Drill".

    Keep in mind this guy "knew" the attack was coming! (You, "most likely" will NOT!)

    YouTube - Family Duel - Tueller Drill

    These guys are on another forum. They did feel the same way as you. But, this opened their eyes a little.

    The guy did get off "one" shot. But, he still would have been injured or killed.

    The other thing to remember is that most BG's are very good at deceiving a potential victim.

    Imagine you're coming out of WW and you see someone putting a cart up. You think nothing of it and you walk on by toward your car. Just as you pass within a few feet of this guy, he turns around with a weapon and launches an attack, what do you do?

  6. #36
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    A second or two is 4 or 5, to 8 or 10 shots. Have you experimented with it in FoF. I have.
    I'm curious, where did to go through FoF training?

    I would love to train with Gabe Suares. I also would love to go to "Gunsite" and "Thunder Ranch."

    I'm 50yrs old AND disabled now; and I can really relate to your earlier "desparity of force" statement. I just think it's a bit nieve to totally depend on a firearm to get you out of a scrape.

    (I'm not saying that's what you believe. But, I do see a lot of people on these boards that feel a firearm is enough.)

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    Here's one video for you to check out. There are others; just google "Tueller Drill".

    Keep in mind this guy "knew" the attack was coming! (You, "most likely" will NOT!)

    YouTube - Family Duel - Tueller Drill

    These guys are on another forum. They did feel the same way as you. But, this opened their eyes a little.

    The guy did get off "one" shot. But, he still would have been injured or killed.

    The other thing to remember is that most BG's are very good at deceiving a potential victim.

    Imagine you're coming out of WW and you see someone putting a cart up. You think nothing of it and you walk on by toward your car. Just as you pass within a few feet of this guy, he turns around with a weapon and launches an attack, what do you do?
    I am familiar with the T drill. The guy in the video got off two shots then stopped shooting and did not move.

    I have drawn and fired against a shotgun in my face and prevailed in the real world. That in addition to many other weapon related incidents. I am also familiar with the deception of BG's having had over twenty years in LE.

    As to the scenario at the end, we were talking about 20 - 25 feet. Answer: move draw and fire. The exact distances and circumstances would determine specifics and if H2H would be involved.

    ETA: Just for clarification, there was H2H (deflection)in the shotgun incident.

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    I'm curious, where did to go through FoF training?

    I would love to train with Gabe Suares. I also would love to go to "Gunsite" and "Thunder Ranch."

    I'm 50yrs old AND disabled now; and I can really relate to your earlier "desparity of force" statement. I just think it's a bit nieve to totally depend on a firearm to get you out of a scrape.

    (I'm not saying that's what you believe. But, I do see a lot of people on these boards that feel a firearm is enough.)
    I did not state nor do I believe in totally depending on the firearm to get you out of a scrape.

    I have trained with a number of friends in FoF, including 7677, Matt Temkin, Robin Brown and active cops.

  9. #39
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    I did not state nor do I believe in totally depending on the firearm to get you out of a scrape.

    I have trained with a number of friends in FoF, including 7677, Matt Temkin, Robin Brown and active cops.
    Howdy Guantes.

    Welcome, belatedly, to the forum. I thought I recognized you.

    Biker

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Thanks, BikerRN.

    Did you catch my new avatar? Its a little small to see good.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array bps3040's Avatar
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    Multiple fluid shock wave strikes....lol, sorry, the devil made me do it
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  12. #42
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Keep in mind this guy "knew" the attack was coming! (You, "most likely" will NOT!)
    Exactly the first half second a lone will be you PERCIEVING the attack, the next fraction will be deciding action. then the additional time required to draw and fire and HOPE that he drops.

    The Tueller drill is unreleased in that you KNOW the attack is coming and you are already prepared to draw
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  13. #43
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bps3040 View Post
    Multiple fluid shock wave strikes....lol, sorry, the devil made me do it
    No problem, I love it.

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Guantes you certainly sound like you earned you LE retirement!
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  15. #45
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    Exactly the first half second a lone will be you PERCIEVING the attack, the next fraction will be deciding action. then the additional time required to draw and fire and HOPE that he drops.

    The Tueller drill is unreleased in that you KNOW the attack is coming and you are already prepared to draw
    Any attempt at establishing reaction times falls within a broad range at best and no where near "exactly", with the wide variation of individual attributes and capabilities.

    Everyone gets wrapped around the axle about the time/distance/draw in the Tueller experiment. That was merely a part of its purpose. Another purpose is as a reference to a distance at which an individual with a blunt or edged weapon represents a real threat and thereby justifies the use of deadly force. This to me is more significant that the time/distance/draw part of the experiment.

    Getting back to specifics, the original statement that I disagreed with was, "A BG can easily cover 20-25 feet before you can get your gun out and fire.". I stand by that. There was no discourse on surprise, reaction, movement, obstacles, or evasion and elimination of the threat, only that statement. The video established that as a bare statement, it was incorrect.

    I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

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