Trying to fight while carrying. - Page 5

Trying to fight while carrying.

This is a discussion on Trying to fight while carrying. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by bladenbullet guantes...the tactic is taught by others as "tactical drama"...the verbal giving in and begging for mercy reiforces the control of the ...

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 61 to 73 of 73

Thread: Trying to fight while carrying.

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    guantes...the tactic is taught by others as "tactical drama"...the verbal giving in and begging for mercy reiforces the control of the aggressor and leaves them feeling in control and relaxed...it is expected as one is begging that arm and body movement to a submissive hands up position is a given and it leaves an opportunity for striking the aggressor or drawing a weapon and firing at them...their impression is that you have submitted defeat and are at their mercy while you are actually launching an assault on them....

    well written and very descriptive....
    Thank You, Sir. The insiration for a refined method came after use of a variation, spontaneously used is a real incident I was involved in.


  2. #62
    Member Array sentioch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    394
    Quote Originally Posted by romansten9 View Post
    Some people say that its good to know self defense techniques that don't involve using a gun. I agree. But when carrying, it can get complicated. If someone threatens you with their fists, do you first try to retreat? (to not reveal that you have a gun) Some people might draw to prevent a fight, others would not. How do you fight while wearing a gun? Concealment is tough when you are moving during a fight. Someone close enough to fight is close enough to try a gun grab. It seems like the 2 are not compatible together. If you are carrying and someone within 20 feet is threatening you, you need to draw your gun. He may have a knife or other weapon, or may get your weapon from you!
    You can only match force with an equal level of force. If all he is showing you is his fists, and you even point a gun on him, you serve a mandatory 3 year prison term!

    If he approaches you with some kind of weapon like a knife or a lead pipe then those are deadly weapons and the fact that he's carrying them and approaching you means you have a justifiable belief that he intends to use them on you. In this situation, a gun is an equal level of force and can be drawn, pointed, or shot at him.

    If he doesn't have a weapon, then you need to wait until his fists become a deadly weapon. Pushing you around is not enough. You have to wait for him to throw a blow at you. Only then can you draw your weapon. So yeah, given that this is how the law is, it is good if you have some martial arts ability to deflect those first few blows before you have legal justification to use a firearm.
    "In a world of compromise, some don't." -HK

  3. #63
    Member Array romansten9's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    165
    Quote Originally Posted by sentioch View Post
    You can only match force with an equal level of force. If all he is showing you is his fists, and you even point a gun on him, you serve a mandatory 3 year prison term!

    If he approaches you with some kind of weapon like a knife or a lead pipe then those are deadly weapons and the fact that he's carrying them and approaching you means you have a justifiable belief that he intends to use them on you. In this situation, a gun is an equal level of force and can be drawn, pointed, or shot at him.

    If he doesn't have a weapon, then you need to wait until his fists become a deadly weapon. Pushing you around is not enough. You have to wait for him to throw a blow at you. Only then can you draw your weapon. So yeah, given that this is how the law is, it is good if you have some martial arts ability to deflect those first few blows before you have legal justification to use a firearm.
    That may be the law where you live, but laws vary (fortunately for me!) In my state the law states that not only can you draw a gun, you can shoot someone if you fear serious bodily harm (in other words, someone that looks like he could beat the s*** out of me, or kill me with his fists) Yes, remember people CAN be killed by mere fists or kicks! They are deadly weapons also! I hope it never comes to that, of course, but like I said, I'm glad for the laws where I live. These laws have been tested and the person that drew their gun was found justified in doing so.
    Last edited by romansten9; June 11th, 2010 at 12:38 AM. Reason: clarified

  4. #64
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    2,319
    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    guantes...the tactic is taught by others as "tactical drama"...the verbal giving in and begging for mercy reiforces the control of the aggressor and leaves them feeling in control and relaxed...it is expected as one is begging that arm and body movement to a submissive hands up position is a given and it leaves an opportunity for striking the aggressor or drawing a weapon and firing at them...their impression is that you have submitted defeat and are at their mercy while you are actually launching an assault on them....

    well written and very descriptive....
    We have a guest instructor (7th Dan USJA) who visits our club every once in a while on for a clinic. and a lot of the techniques he teaches involves "APPEARING" to submit the BG or bully while in actuality you are setting them up. one classic example was of the "tough guy...bully" who tries to squeeze your hand enough to break it. not a deadly force situation but still an assault.

    In some cases he lowers his center of gravity. screams in pain whether it hurts or not and turns slightly away from the BG while placing his free hand over the hand of the BG that is squeezing. he follows up by either reversing his direction and rotating and break the BG's wrist or continues in the original circular direction and doing the same.

    It takes almost no effort and is accomplished very quickly. The key in that is to sell to the attacker that you are powerless.
    Glock 19
    Kahr PM9
    LMT-M4
    Mossberg 590
    Shodan, Jujutsu

  5. #65
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,172
    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    guantes...the tactic is taught by others as "tactical drama"...the verbal giving in and begging for mercy reiforces the control of the aggressor and leaves them feeling in control and relaxed...it is expected as one is begging that arm and body movement to a submissive hands up position is a given and it leaves an opportunity for striking the aggressor or drawing a weapon and firing at them...their impression is that you have submitted defeat and are at their mercy while you are actually launching an assault on them....

    well written and very descriptive....
    This is the starting point from Krav Maga as well. Very useful if you know what you are doing. When I knocked the gun loose from the BG holding me at gun point, I did the "jump over the seat, screaming and flailing like a maniac" technique used mostly by children and the mentally ill. I was 19 years old and it saved my butt that day.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  6. #66
    New Member Array Out West's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    5
    Hartleys Rule: If in a fight you get so much as a scratch, you did not bring enough force.

    Out
    West

  7. #67
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    12,044

    ? for ctsketch

    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    We have a guest instructor (7th Dan USJA) who visits our club every once in a while on for a clinic. and a lot of the techniques he teaches involves "APPEARING" to submit the BG or bully while in actuality you are setting them up. one classic example was of the "tough guy...bully" who tries to squeeze your hand enough to break it. not a deadly force situation but still an assault.

    In some cases he lowers his center of gravity. screams in pain whether it hurts or not and turns slightly away from the BG while placing his free hand over the hand of the BG that is squeezing. he follows up by either reversing his direction and rotating and break the BG's wrist or continues in the original circular direction and doing the same.

    It takes almost no effort and is accomplished very quickly. The key in that is to sell to the attacker that you are powerless.
    Are you talking about starting from a "handshake" or from a wrist grab?

  8. #68
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    2,319
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Are you talking about starting from a "handshake" or from a wrist grab?
    This was a non lethal force "hand shake" the kind where some tough guy tries to break the bones in your hands... a wrist grab would be something different.
    Glock 19
    Kahr PM9
    LMT-M4
    Mossberg 590
    Shodan, Jujutsu

  9. #69
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    12,044

    re: ctsketch, handshake

    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    This was a non lethal force "hand shake" the kind where some tough guy tries to break the bones in your hands... a wrist grab would be something different.
    OK, from a wrist grab I'll sometimes use my free hand to secure a center lock with the blade of my hand cranking down on the radius near the wrist. But from a handshake, well I'm not sure I can see that move.

    Will play with it Monday if I get a chance.

    In your scenario, (assuming the attacker is right handed and shaking your right hand) is the attacker's radius bone pointing up, like in a regular handshake? Are you using your free hand to snap the radius? To dislocate or separate it from the lunate and scaphoid bone?

    Here's a url to a pic with the bones of the hand named. Anterior view of Right Hand

  10. #70
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    2,319
    in my scenario it is a regular grip (thumb up) where the force is forward and downward (hold your hand out and squeeze your fist). best part is the wrist twist/break can be done one handed if they really commit to the squeeze....if not...bring in the free hand.

    from a wrist grab after employing some sort of strike I like to rotate the wrist being grabbed and use the blade of the grabbed hand to put pressure on the wrist of the attacker and use the free hand to keep it tight....or rotate the hand counter clockwise to break free of the grip and run...
    Glock 19
    Kahr PM9
    LMT-M4
    Mossberg 590
    Shodan, Jujutsu

  11. #71
    Ex Member Array waitin66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    shanghai
    Posts
    12
    I haven't been in a "fight" since the ninth grade, and that was a looong time ago.

  12. #72
    New Member Array LEAPSpeaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mohave Valley AZ
    Posts
    11
    As a former LEO I've had to put hands on people lots of times. If your going to carry you need to know how to protect your weapon, and you should know some self defense. Young cops make the mistake of drawing their weapon in a non-shooting situation thinking the BG is going to stop. If he doesn't, and wants to fight, now you have to worry about your gun. It's hard to fight with one hand.

    I worked undercover for years, and as long as the BG doesn't know you have a weapon, you have the advantage. At the point you are if fear of your life or someone else, draw your weapon, but make sure if you draw it, you are justified to use it.

  13. #73
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    The drawn weapon, by LE, is not always to get the perp to stop his activity it is to give you an edge if he decides to go "all in".

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Ready for a fight? Or looking for a fight?
    By bigmacque in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: November 25th, 2010, 12:57 PM
  2. Priorities of the Gun Fight and “The Fight Continuum”
    By Sweatnbullets in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: January 7th, 2008, 04:05 AM
  3. Got in a fight while carrying
    By PAExplorer in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 101
    Last Post: December 14th, 2007, 10:32 PM
  4. Fist fight while carrying
    By kentuckycarry in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 85
    Last Post: March 28th, 2007, 08:46 PM

Search tags for this page

getting in a fight while carrying

,

i got in a fight while carrying my gun

,

in the movie collateral what kind of holster did tom cruise use

,

my gun fight scenario

,

slang draw against the drop

,

?the tueller experiment?

Click on a term to search for related topics.