Legal aspects of shooting unarmed man in public restroom - long - Page 2

Legal aspects of shooting unarmed man in public restroom - long

This is a discussion on Legal aspects of shooting unarmed man in public restroom - long within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Gas. Grass. Ass. Nobody rides for free... That's how I met my lady. Biker...

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  1. #16
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Gas. Grass. Ass. Nobody rides for free...


    That's how I met my lady.

    Biker


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array Snowman23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Okay... assuming he isn't a troll or joking. I would say the obvious... he is clinically out of his mind.

    He is not within his legal right to use deadly force because another man is using the facilities.
    Agreed. BB sounds like a very dangerous and unstable person.
    Whether or not he truly believes that he would be justified in the described scenarios is probably irrelevant. Sounds like he's looking for a way to kill someone. BB scares me.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post


    That's how I met my lady.

    Biker
    You are a man whore and gave it up when she asked?

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    You are a man whore and gave it up when she asked?
    Hey Mitchell, I'm trying to keep this discussion as constructive as possible. It's hard enough to do, based on the facts.

    Just a polite request.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman23 View Post
    Sounds like he's looking for a way to kill someone. BB scares me.
    I think it's just that he's extremely homophobic and also pretty puritanical in his views on the body, period.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Yeah...yeah...

    Fine...

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array JohnLeVick's Avatar
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    I am a lawyer, this is not a legal opinion, but it is fact: BB is a sick SOB who not only should not be carrying, he should be institutionalized. He feels threatened by ANYONE less than fully dressed? Called 911 when a girl flashed her boobs? Sick, sick, SICK!!! I'm not sure an adult with a problem this deep-seated is curable, but he needs help, and is a public safety hazard.

    Okay, rant now concluded, I'd add this: Justification for the use of deadly force is based upon a "reasonable person" standard. I.e., would a reasonable person, confronted with the "threat," be in imminent fear of his life or that of someone else, or fear that a "laundry list" crime like sexual assault or robbery was about to be committed? BB is clearly anything but reasonable. His subjective "feeling" of being threatened by the appearance of all or part of a naked human body is never legal justification for the use of deadly force if a reasonable person would not have felt so threatened. A reasonable person is not in fear of his life just because someone undresses or urinates near him. I'd sure hate to meet the Grand Jury who would think otherwise!

  8. #23
    Member Array SAMI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    I think it's just that he's extremely homophobic and also pretty puritanical in his views on the body, period.
    I'd venture a guess that this guy definitely has some sexuality issues. His fear of male genitalia could be driven by some conflicting thoughts/feelings inside his head.. He's basically scared to confront it because he doesn't know how... And the end result is meeting it with violence because that how he justifies it... ? I don't know, I'm not a psychologist, but this sounds a bit like 'projection'..

    If I happen to be the unlucky fellow in the restroom at the time this guy snaps, I'll counter with a quick shot of hot urine to his eyes and bash his face into a mirror... Only because that's cool in the movies when someone gets a mirror to the face..

    I can't imagine that he'd be cleared, unless he lies to paint a picture that the guy tried to force himself on the - dare i say - victim.
    Forget 'Twitter', i'm on the CB...
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  9. #24
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    As an LEO, I would arrest this guy in a second. His ONLY recourse would be to lie until his face fell off - if he EVER mentioned that the only "crime" the other guy committed was using a public urinal, he'd be spending a long, long time being exposed to a lot more than a casual unzipping in his local penitentiary...

    Now that his comments are public record for time immemorial (thanks, interwebs!), I think his goose is cooked should any scenario even remotely approaching this one take place, and this nut job actually does hurt/kill somebody.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLeVick View Post
    Okay, rant now concluded, I'd add this: Justification for the use of deadly force is based upon a "reasonable person" standard. I.e., would a reasonable person, confronted with the "threat," be in imminent fear of his life or that of someone else, or fear that a "laundry list" crime like sexual assault or robbery was about to be committed? BB is clearly anything but reasonable. His subjective "feeling" of being threatened by the appearance of all or part of a naked human body is never legal justification for the use of deadly force if a reasonable person would not have felt so threatened. A reasonable person is not in fear of his life just because someone undresses or urinates near him. I'd sure hate to meet the Grand Jury who would think otherwise!
    Thanks John. He did insist that a jury, using the 'reasonable' standard would side with him, esp since the victim was unable to dispute it (since he'd be dead).
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #26
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    Big applause for Mitchel and Biker; you guys just gave me my chuckle for the day.

    As for the OP's question. There are a couple of things you could do to straighten the guy out as far as legal use of force goes.

    1) Print out the statutes on use of deadly force which exist in your state.

    2) Give the general explanation of ability, opportunity, jeopardy, (and I like to include "intent.") If he is at all rational he will realize that he isn't looking at the situation in a particularly rational way.

    3) "BB says he rarely ever uses public restroom or locker rooms and if he does, uses stalls or private showers."

    He may well have several issues here. If he isn't just being a troll and a jerk, he would help himself with a trip to a clinical psychologist to discuss his inappropriate fears.

    4) "He also claims that something called 'agoraphobia" (an extreme fear of public places) could be used to justify his reactions."

    The insanity defense might mitigate the punishment he receives but in today's environment even if (somehow) he got an acquittal based on this claim, he would spend the rest of his life in an institution. Think for example, John Hinckley.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array JohnLeVick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Thanks John. He did insist that a jury, using the 'reasonable' standard would side with him, esp since the victim was unable to dispute it (since he'd be dead).
    Standing alone, this demonstrates that he has lost touch with reality, if he were ever in touch with reality, which I doubt. What scares me about this fellow is that the next step in his psychosis would be trolling in public restrooms for someone to "threaten" him by unzipping at a neighboring urinal. I'm still assuming, without knowing, that his forum posts are truthful expressions of his beliefs, and not just forum trolling. I hope he's just trolling the forum.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    I'd stay away from him and his posting. If you answer his post or get involved in the thread, if he does shoot someone, you could be involved.

    Sounds like the guy is a full fledged homophobe without much reason to be so.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  14. #29
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    re: 9MMare

    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Thanks John. He did insist that a jury, using the 'reasonable' standard would side with him, esp since the victim was unable to dispute it (since he'd be dead).
    Almost sounds like a homicidal maniac looking for an excuse.

    He's already rationalizing how his version of the events would have to be believed because there wouldn't be a witness. YIKES.


    How many ways can we all say, "quacked?"

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Hopyard;1634266

    1) Print out the statutes on use of deadly force which exist in your state.

    2) Give the general explanation of ability, opportunity, jeopardy, (and I like to include "intent.") If he is at all rational he will realize that he isn't looking at the situation in a particularly rational way.

    .[/QUOTE]


    Thanks Hopyard.

    More specifically, he was the one posting copies of gun laws...it was how they were interpreted that I tried to explain. He felt that he was legitimately justified, under the law, the way he interpreted them and what a jury would find as 'reasonable.'

    He disregarded my interpretations, including those of intent, ability, and jeopardy, as completely non-valid because I'm not a lawyer.

    I also pointed out that all gun owners are obligated to know the laws and that ignorance is no defense. And that all state gun laws are online and that gunowners are not required to have legal degrees to own guns.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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