Legal aspects of shooting unarmed man in public restroom - long - Page 5

Legal aspects of shooting unarmed man in public restroom - long

This is a discussion on Legal aspects of shooting unarmed man in public restroom - long within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Unless we are in a position to know the intimate details of a person's life, we do not know, for example, if "BBs" fear of ...

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Thread: Legal aspects of shooting unarmed man in public restroom - long

  1. #61
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    Unless we are in a position to know the intimate details of a person's life, we do not know, for example, if "BBs" fear of sexaul assult is an unfounded phobia, or an understandable reaction due to past personal trauma . Most of the time, we never really know a person's true story.

    So, on the one hand, the fear of sexual assult may be a semi-reasonable response to past events [when I was in High School I was working in the Strawberry Felds of NW Oregon, we had another employee who had just returned from a combat tour in Viet Nam--he was riding on the back of one of the farms trucks when it started backfiring: in a flash, he was off the truck and running & dodging through the fields --in the context of NW Oregon, his response was shall we say, rather over-the-top; in light of where he had just come from, his response was pretty darned normal]. So "BB's" reactions may be a form of PTSD reaction to past trauma.

    Yet, on the other hand, since "BB" is apparently aware of his "phobia", it seems to me that it is therefore incumbant upon him to get (or continue to receive) professional help for his extreme reactions. Also, since he is personally aware of his own reactions, it is also incumbant upon him to work to control/mitigate his own potential over-reactions. I would agree with Barkn that as repugnant as a homo-sexual invitation to consensual sex would be, that to automatically assume that forcible rape is about to occur is a logical fallacy that is the result of taking counsel of one's own fears. Would such an invitation be gross yep! Would such an invitation be justifiable for use of deadly force?? Don't think so, espicially since "BB" has already personally acknowledged his phobia.

    This seems a reasonable place for something with less than lethal impact. Say for example pepper spray. Given "BB's" personal acknowldgment of his phobia it seems to me that a jury may well view his publically-stated reflexive use of deadly force as an "execution" of the potential offender rather than self-defense.

    BB-brother, if you are not already getting treatment, find a good psychiatrist or therapist and get help so this does not continue to rule your life and get some pepper-spray or other less-than-lethal form of defense to give yourself a variety of options. For example, they used to make a pepper-spray that had an indelible purple dye--if somebody did approach you in such a situation, if you pepper prayed them in the face AND exposed genitals, the dye-colored genitalia would certainly lend credibility to your story to the police
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan


  2. #62
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    Actually it has happened to me before. I was in a stall. urinals are across from the stall. I am leaving stall and guy in urinal turns before fully zipping. I see a tip of peen. Intended sexual assault or flashing? Hardly.
    I'll go one better:
    Stopped at a highway rest area, myself, and two co workers on a road trip. We enter and there is a man, obviously not quite "right" standing at a urnial with his pants and underware all the way down to his ankles.
    He obviously figures this is how he does it at home so this is how it's done in public.
    We all move to a different area of the rest room. Luckily it was a large restroom with a chest high dividing wall and more urnials on the other side. When the guy finishes his business he wanders around the restroom, singing to himself. Luckily he has by now raised his pants. I think he was waiting for a traveling companion that was driving him to finish up because I don't think the state would issue him a drivers license.
    Anyways we finish and leave. In now way did I consider him a threat just because he was flashing his stuff. I was not about to drop him in his tracks just because he had issues.
    BB would probably freak out and shoot this poor guy, the guys driver, and the horse they rode in on because they must all be deviants.

  3. #63
    Member Array guardmt's Avatar
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    If a man flashed himself to me lets see how he feels about my combat boots up his worthless ass.
    “What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pike

  4. #64
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeephipwr View Post
    I think the gentleman may be harboring feeling of homosexuality. In his own mind, he wants to be percieved as a heterosexual male. But when placed in an environment of possible naked male bodies or male body parts, he wants to resort to violence or flee. Thus avoiding those places.
    I think this nails it pretty squarely.

    BB has some pretty severe denial going on, and needs counseling ASAP. His emphasis on "what happens if I'm assaulted" is overshadowing the *much* larger, critical issue of why he thinks espying male genitalia in a male restroom should be considered an assault.
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

  5. #65
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    BB wrote: "I said I avoid using stand up urinals. I use booths. "

    BB, are you unable to empty your bladder when using a urinal, or when someone else is nearby? Do you need to use secluded restrooms and booths because you "lockup" in public circumstances and can't empty your bladder?

    It is sort of odd, the acronym "BB" so easily derived from your screen name
    is also used for the term-- "bashful bladder"--an emotional disorder with some attributes similar to agoraphobia, which has the correct medical name, "paruresis."

    Folks who suffer from paruresis often go to remarkable lengths to hide their inability to pee; suffer huge sense of personal embarrassment and degradation of their own sense of masculinity--if they are male. They sometimes (not invariably) will attribute their difficulty using public restrooms to psycho-social causes and imagine that others will attack them while they are peeing.

    Please see International Paruresis Association Home Page and Paruretic.Org Shy Bladder Information if this is the real reason you hide in booths and seeks secluded restrooms, and prefer to stay at home to the point where you fear being agoraphobic or are argoraphobic.

    Fear and phobia of the kind you are describing is sometimes readily treatable with what is called Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and "graduated exposure" to the feared situation. The brain is a "show me" organ. We can't convince you that your fears are irrational, but if you were slowly introduced to the things you fear -- sight of a partially naked body, being in a public restroom when others are present--- your brain will quickly discover that nothing bad happens, your world doesn't come to an end, and the inappropriate thoughts you now have will dissipate.

    Please consider seeking some professional help. You need to be able to get out and about, and part of doing that involves using public restrooms. Therefore, you need to learn to feel safe and comfortable there--- as most folks typically are.

    I can assure you that in my nearly 70 years on earth I have never witnessed anything inappropriate in any public restroom. In your case, too, instead of seeking out secluded places, seek out slightly busy places (if you don't have paruresis) because you can gain a sense of safety from the presence of more than one individual in the room with you at the same time. E.g., do you really think someone will start with you in a moderately busy public restroom with two or three others around as witnesses? It won't happen.

    As for your understanding of the law, everyone here has informed you that you are misinterpreting. You have a choice. You can stubbornly adhere to your mistaken ideas, or you can accept the message you are getting and perhaps in the process, save yourself very considerable trouble.

  6. #66
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    Hopyard: Good Post
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan

  7. #67
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    This is actually turning into quite a funny thread. So far, I'm counting 7 posts hinting/recommending psychological counseling and 1 post for a medical condition.

    This is chock full of win....
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  8. #68
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Davies View Post
    Hopyard: Good Post
    second that...

  9. #69
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    If he thinks flashing is justifiable to use deadly force he really isn't going to like prison
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  10. #70
    Senior Member Array JohnLeVick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    i salute...fully clothed...everyone for keeping this thread pretty damned clean...and i withold my opinion as it would tarnish the good intent of others attempts to continue the thread...

    i will recommend psyciatric help to bb...interesting subject and outlook...i hope everything works out for you...
    Hasn't been easy, believe me!

    Oh, and as others have said, I stand by my original post(s). Now, shooting someone for inappropriate use of apostrophes, well, that's another matter...

  11. #71
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Davies View Post
    This seems a reasonable place for something with less than lethal impact. Say for example pepper spray. Given "BB's" personal acknowldgment of his phobia it seems to me that a jury may well view his publically-stated reflexive use of deadly force as an "execution" of the potential offender rather than self-defense.

    BB-brother, if you are not already getting treatment, find a good psychiatrist or therapist and get help so this does not continue to rule your life and get some pepper-spray or other less-than-lethal form of defense to give yourself a variety of options. For example, they used to make a pepper-spray that had an indelible purple dye--if somebody did approach you in such a situation, if you pepper prayed them in the face AND exposed genitals, the dye-colored genitalia would certainly lend credibility to your story to the police

    Thank you. The pepper spray is excellent advice, as is, as others have stated....get some help.

    Something that came out in later posts in the other thread is that BB seems to be taking courses to become some type of law enforcement officer...I could be wrong but he mentioned alot of criminal justice classes....maybe he'll clear that up for us? Anyway...considering his aggressive stance towards somewhat common exposure out in public, I find this scary.

    For the person that questioned it, he does have a cc permit from the st. of Michigan.

    He's also not a troll...esp not here. I am the one that linked him to this forum.

    I appreciate the civility in this thread...the point (for me) was to convince BB that his response to fairly common contact out in the adult world was inappropriate and deadly. He was unconvinced because he thought, as he says, that he could get away with it in court. (He doesnt seem to care on moral grounds).

    Thank you all for attempting to convince him.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  12. #72
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    Anyways we finish and leave. In now way did I consider him a threat just because he was flashing his stuff. I was not about to drop him in his tracks just because he had issues.
    BB would probably freak out and shoot this poor guy, the guys driver, and the horse they rode in on because they must all be deviants.

    I hadnt thought about this, but accidental display could certainly happen if someone was drunk or mentally disabled. That would end up as evidence in court, and again, weaken a lethal force defense case.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  13. #73
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    BB wrote:
    It is sort of odd, the acronym "BB" so easily derived from your screen name
    is also used for the term-- "bashful bladder"--an emotional disorder with some attributes similar to agoraphobia, which has the correct medical name, "paruresis."
    .

    Wow, thank you very much Hopyard.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  14. #74
    Member Array TomD's Avatar
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    Watch out for that door! "BB" is coming out of the closet!

  15. #75
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Something that came out in later posts in the other thread is that BB seems to be taking courses to become some type of law enforcement officer...I could be wrong but he mentioned alot of criminal justice classes....maybe he'll clear that up for us? Anyway...considering his aggressive stance towards somewhat common exposure out in public, I find this scary.
    No self-respecting, professional dept would take him on....the screening process (psychological interview, oral exam) should have him shredded out early. While I don't question his intelligence, I do question his decision-making skills and ethics.

    Hopefully we won't be reading about him in the news as a rookie LEO who "made a mistake" or permit-holder who shot someone in a public restroom for looking at him sideways.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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