Legal aspects of shooting unarmed man in public restroom - long

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Thread: Legal aspects of shooting unarmed man in public restroom - long

  1. #106
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Take this thread to Jerry springer.com

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  3. #107
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    Originally Posted by Public Act 309 of 2006
    Introduced by Rep. Rick Jones (R) on September 7, 2005, to create a new law establishing that a person who uses deadly force for self defense in his or her home, contiguous private property or occupied vehicle need not first flee from a threatening attacker, and that a person who unlawfully and forcibly enters one of these is presumed is to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence, with certain minor exceptions. This would place the “home is my castle” doctrine in statute. Also, to establish that a law-abiding person who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be, has no duty to retreat, and can “stand his or her ground” and meet force with force, including deadly force if necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm.

    actually...he isnt misinterpreting the law....but as he states incorrectly it doesnt abandon the necessity to retreat...it just allows his to stand his ground if he is somewhere he is legally entitled to be...there is more to it than the statement you bolded....

    it doesnt change the fact that he is...in my less than proffessional opinion...legally incompetant of making those decisions based on his statements....but his interpretation of the law he plans to use when he blows away a guy who trips away from the urinal with his pubic hair caught in his zipper by accident...
    your right I retract my first part.

    I still think morally there should be some sort of retreat plan if you are able to. What is the reason to want to play hero and take down the villein?

    If there was an opportunity to retreat and he didn't I would think the jury would have a field day with that one.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  4. #108
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    re: 21Bubba-- best of thread friend

    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    Take this thread to Jerry springer.com
    Best of thread!!!!

  5. #109
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    your right I retract my first part.

    I still think morally there should be some sort of retreat plan if you are able to. What is the reason to want to play hero and take down the villein?

    If there was an opportunity to retreat and he didn't I would think the jury would have a field day with that one.
    agreed...i just wanted to correct the statement so nobody else misinterpreted it....

  6. #110
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    Hopyard....
    "But worse, you clearly don't understand that you have an obligation to use the minimum amount of force necessary to extricate yourself from a situation."

    BINGO!

  7. #111
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    BB, aside from some rather severe social phobia issues, your real legal problem is in your interpretation of the lethal force rules. Just because someone is threatening you with sexual assault does NOT give you blanket coverage to shoot them, or indeed to use any lethal force. It MAY, certainly, but there are other factors in play...

    I don't know your physical stature, but assume for the sake of argument that you are 5'10" and 180 lbs, and have no debilitating physical impairments. Now, assume your "attacker" is 5'4", 125lbs, and is missing an arm and has a club foot (yes, it's hyperbole, but stay with me). The "attacker" is obviously unarmed (perhaps naked, right?). You MIGHT be able to convince a jury that you could not escape or stop the attack with anything less than gunfire, but I wouldn't bet on it.

    If there is no weapon involved, you must be able to articulate some reason (that a jury of people who do NOT have your issues) that deadly force was authorized - e.g. disparity of force, that the attacker was a Jedi master, etc. In other words, the attacker must have the ability to carry out the attack - if you are much stronger/bigger/faster/healthier than the attacker, that is going to be hard to prove indeed...

    Keep in mind that there are numerous cases where people used lethal force to stop an attacker WITH a weapon, and they were still charged (and, in many cases, convicted) for using "too much" or "unreasonable" force... You are, in short, inviting disaster unless there is REASONABLE and ARTICULABLE elements to the situation that warrant deadly force. And the fact is that the vast majority of people (and jurors) do not find your views reasonable...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  8. #112
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    For those who might come across this thread in the future...this thread is NOT normal...but an aberration of things discussed on this forum.

    Really?

    Could have fooled me...

  9. #113
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    My last post on this. Please stop trying to rationalize with this idiot.

  10. #114
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    I'm still willing to jump in here as I indicated a while ago, provided someone's willing to retain my services.

    I like 5.56mm, preferably 55 grain Federal 55 grain soft point or anything from Hornady in .223 or 5.56. If you don't have any of that on hand, SS109 or even M/XM193 will be fine.

    I'll accept it at a rate of $0.15 per round, and I need enough to cover $500 as an initial payment.

    Without that, I just can't give this thread the attention it deserves...

  11. #115
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    I'm still willing to jump in here as I indicated a while ago, provided someone's willing to retain my services.

    I like 5.56mm, preferably 55 grain Federal 55 grain soft point or anything from Hornady in .223 or 5.56. If you don't have any of that on hand, SS109 or even M/XM193 will be fine.

    I'll accept it at a rate of $0.15 per round, and I need enough to cover $500 as an initial payment.

    Without that, I just can't give this thread the attention it deserves...
    ammo whore....

  12. #116
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    My last post on this. Please stop trying to rationalize with this idiot.
    we'll miss you...ok...not really...


    ever think maybe everyone is really having fun with it and enjoys feeding it?...

    sorry...i forgot...youre not going to respond...

  13. #117
    Member Array basicbosch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    Ya....that's what I was thinking.

    For those who might come across this thread in the future...this thread is NOT normal...but an aberration of things discussed on this forum.

    BB...your latest posts appear reasoned. By your focus on one aspect of self-defense--sexual assault--I think that is what throws people for a loop. Given the collective experience of the group, this is just one event...and it does strike me as odd; I would not trust you as a LEO, IMO. I do think you should seek additional counseling and discuss this thread with him/her.

    I do have to ask, though, when you said:


    Why did you do this??
    In one quick second I thought I didn't want to explain to his children why they didn't have a father anymore. They were outside with their mom and dad while this arguement they were having outside went on. That would be the main reason, and I felt as though I could handle the situation with my bare hands as I did.

    It's also pretty hard to rationalize killing a person who is just fighting for his wife back. However at that time I thought they were divorced. It was that day I learned she had been lieing to me and they were getting a divorce so she could be with me. She told me when I met her that she was already divorced.

    So the first reason would be because I knew by looking at him I could handle the situation with my hands and I didn't want to shoot a man in front of his kids. Then spend their entire lives explaining to them why he was not alive.

  14. #118
    Senior Member Array JohnLeVick's Avatar
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    Wow. Just, wow. I'm seeing Rod Serling, hearing the theme music...

  15. #119
    Member Array TheoryRealm's Avatar
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    Perhaps this is needed. It could have helped! Really!

    The Urinal Game Online Game
    Stop acting like we're fightin' for "freedom". We are ALREADY....free.

  16. #120
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

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