Legal aspects of shooting unarmed man in public restroom - long

Legal aspects of shooting unarmed man in public restroom - long

This is a discussion on Legal aspects of shooting unarmed man in public restroom - long within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am involved in a discussion on another (non-gun) forum about the Dont Ask, Dont Tell policy. I do not want a political discussion...only legal ...

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Thread: Legal aspects of shooting unarmed man in public restroom - long

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Legal aspects of shooting unarmed man in public restroom - long

    I am involved in a discussion on another (non-gun) forum about the Dont Ask, Dont Tell policy. I do not want a political discussion...only legal pertaining to gun use.

    I also want a civil discussion and not bring it down to the low-brow level. If this is not appropriate for this forum, I'll understand if the mods delete this. I am not trolling.

    In the discussion, "BB' claims that he is within his rights to use deadly force...shoot a man....in a public restroom that is using a urinal and has (necessarily) revealed 'himself' to BB.

    BB says he rarely ever uses public restroom or locker rooms and if he does, uses stalls or private showers. He says that it is deviant behavior to expose yourself in public, period...one would wonder why public restrooms and locker rooms/showers are legal at all then?....but this is his stance.


    He says that such 'exposure' in the restroom would make him extremely uncomfortable and he would see it as a threat. Note: in this scenario, the other man would not be armed in any way.

    I asked him why, if the other man was not armed, he just did not leave the premises. He claimed he could feel trapped if the man was between him and the door.

    I pointed out that he could still use less-than-lethal force to 'escape' and that he had NO GROUNDS to use lethal force.

    When I brought up laws regarding use of lethal force, he claimed that the laws also support use of lethal force in the face of sexual assault.

    He claims that he could convince a jury that he felt the assault was imminent...because the jury "would never hear the dead victim's side" (*sigh*).

    He also claims that something called 'agoraphobia" (an extreme fear of public places) could be used to justify his reactions. (I pointed out that if he had been clinically diagnosed with this...he'd need to to use it in defense....he mostly likely should not be carrying a gun, period. And might even not be legally carrying according to mental health restrictions).

    I would like opinions on this, esp if our lawyers can contribute. This person has a major issue and I'd like to see him at least better educated on this....he sounds possibly like a danger to the community...and would certainly be a black mark on cc. I will send him a link to the discussion.

    I can also provide a link to the other discussion, if not appropriate here, you can pm me for it. http://forums.myspace.com/t/4787219....d&PageIndex=13
    It starts on page 13, I'm Lursa. Mods can remove if they feel it's wrong.


    Thanks in advance for your comments.
    Last edited by 9MMare; May 26th, 2010 at 05:35 PM. Reason: added: link to main discussion
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    I have some questions first...
    BB is male?
    We are talking about in a Men's room?
    The man in question revealed himself in what way?
    *Flasher?
    *With intent to commit sexual assault?

    I'm sorry I just have to undoubtedly confirm these questions.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    He seems like someone who needs to be watched and should not be carrying a gun at all...sounds more like homophobia than acrophobia...

    There is no justification at all the shoot an unarmed flasher.
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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    I have some questions first...
    BB is male?
    We are talking about in a Men's room?
    The man in question revealed himself in what way?
    *Flasher?
    *With intent to commit sexual assault?
    BB is a male, in a public men's restroom.

    The other man was using the urinal in a normal fashion...no different exposure than that. Not a flasher, no intent except to urinate.


    BB also said that he would shoot anyone that undressed in front of him, like in a locker room. (I mentioned that I have used women's restrooms...not in a stall....to change my clothes and seen other women do so...and that it is not deviant behavior).
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    BB also said that he would shoot anyone that undressed in front of him, like in a locker room. (I mentioned that I have used women's restrooms...not in a stall....to change my clothes and seen other women do so...and that it is not deviant behavior).
    I'm not one to rat anyone out...but I think its time for some intervention...was he joking? (even then its not funny)
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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    In the thread, BB also claimed that when he was flashed by a woman (exposed her breasts), he convinced her to get in his car, called 911, and had her arrested. (I know...the number of legal issues here are ridiculous).
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    You sure this isn't some 13 year old having fun on the "interwebs"?
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  8. #8
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    I'm not one to rat anyone out...but I think its time for some intervention...was he joking? (even then its not funny)
    I dont believe he's joking or trolling. He's a regular poster on that forum. I did point out that his posts could be used against him in court if he ever does shoot anyone. He doesnt seem concerned about that. He is firm in his position.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    I'm going to need a retainer before I get into this one.

    I accept credit cards, or you can pay me in ammo. I like NATO 9mm & 5.56mm (SS109 or the new open tip match with the copper shank they just started issuing. Some sort of Federal Trophy Bonded adaption...).

    Sorry people. This one is pay for play.

  10. #10
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    I don't really have much to contribute to this thread at this time, except to say that BB sounds like a full fledged idiot that I want to stay far away from.

    It sounds to me like BB needs to be locked away in a cell somewhere, and if he pursues this course of action may very well be, justifiably so IMHO.

    Biker

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    I'm going to need a retainer before I get into this one.

    I accept credit cards, or you can pay me in ammo. I like NATO 9mm & 5.56mm (SS109 or the new open tip match with the copper shank they just started issuing. Some sort of Federal Trophy Bonded adaption...).

    Sorry people. This one is pay for play.
    LOL Thanks.

    Your dedication to public safety is noted.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Seriously folks, just clarifying the laws for this guy might be helpful. He feels that I am 'no legal source' of information....altho I was only interpreting published laws on the matter. (And he was posting copied statutes). Maybe other explanations...of the laws, not his behavior issues...would be helpful.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Okay... assuming he isn't a troll or joking. I would say the obvious... he is clinically out of his mind.

    He is not within his legal right to use deadly force because another man is using the facilities.

    Biting my lip right now.... starting to draw blood....
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

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    Ummmmmmmmmmmmm.....wow he had a woman arrested for flashing and would shoot a man for undressing in front of him and the man at the urinal is going to sexual assault him.
    I am really at a loss for words. Whether he is a regular poster or not this guy is nutty. I can think of no legal justification for anything close to deadly force. This guy has some real issues with men and women apparently. At least he did not shoot the woman for flashing.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    LOL Thanks.

    Your dedication to public safety is noted.
    Public safety nothing.

    The public is safe when I am provided with sufficient coffee when I drive to work, and sufficient bourbon when I arrive at my office to deal with my coworkers & the public.

    Beyond that...Gas, Grass or Ass. Nobody rides for free.

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