Good way to get killed!

Good way to get killed!

This is a discussion on Good way to get killed! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is just wrong on so many fronts, Video of Teen Forced Into Van Prompts Mistaken Alarm - AOL News watch the video first, decide ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array ncsteveh's Avatar
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    Good way to get killed!

    This is just wrong on so many fronts,

    Video of Teen Forced Into Van Prompts Mistaken Alarm - AOL News

    watch the video first, decide your reaction, then read the story. also notice the reactions of the bystanders. damn


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    The story says the girl was protesting the family moving to Florida and it was her family stuffing her into the minivan. Then it says the Virginia DA is contemplating charges against the family....charges for what? They didn't break any law. They put their minor child into a van while she was attempting to run away. They didn't call the amber alert, others did. Am I missing something?

    If I had witnessed it, I would have gotten tag # and descriptions and called 911. As the actual story goes, you never know what a situation really is when you see it. The police can sort it out.

    PS. Can you imagine a concealed carry permit holder thinking it is a kidnapping and intervening with weapon drawn? Then if one of the family members also had a CCP would they be justified in defending themselves with their weapon? Just thinking of possible scenarios and points to ponder.
    Last edited by BugDude; June 1st, 2010 at 07:53 AM. Reason: added PS
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  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    another beaming example of you have no idea what youre getting into if you dont have the whole story...i am surprized nobody approached them and asked what was going on...and i'm not....

  4. #4
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    I would have jumped in for sure. I would have thumped the man on the spot and helped the girl escape or I may have drawn my weapon and demanded them to stop. I also may have gone to jail.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    The "alter ego" rule in SC has its value but it can also be dangerous as it would have been in this thread' case and should, IMO, only be used where you really can appreciate the details of a situation as they unfold in front of you. Almost, by definition, you will never be sure since you have "no dog in the fight". Alter ego defines your ability to intercede in a situation where you believe that the person in jeopardy could be facing imminent threat of death or great bodily injury IF THAT PERSON WERE YOU. Almost impossible for you to know what is really going on; for that reason I would only intercede at a point where imminent death seems to be the logical outcome--ie: a beating is taking place and the victim is literally unconscious and not defending themself or a firearm has been drawn on and pointed at a victim--even then I would hope that my initial 911 call gets a response first.

  6. #6
    Member Array MSteve's Avatar
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    This is a difficult position for the family. As is, they look like abductors, but what's the alternative? Just let her run loose into who knows what? Then we end up with a real amber alert and parents being acused of neglect, etc.
    I'm not sure what the DA thinks he'll charge them with. Unless they beat her to get her in the car, I'm pretty sure securing your child is not against any laws, though her being 17 could be the issue. She might be legally old enough to have refused to go. It depends on their state's laws.
    AlabamaConstitution of 1819: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and the state.
    The world doesn't owe you anything. It was here first.-Mark Twain
    "Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."-John Wayne
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    Thatís why its always a good policy to not intervene. Be a good witness and get a plate number. Best not to make a life altering mistake when you know so little, its not your job to begin with, and you have no clue what your getting into.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    This is exactly why I try to make sure all of my students understand that unless you know the WHOLE story do not jump in with deadly force.

    If you get involved, start with verbal and work your way up. You need to keep yourself safe first and be on the phone as you do intervene.

    Even OC spray would have been a possibility if verbal didn't work.

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array WhoWeBePart1's Avatar
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    I would have dialed 911 and followed the van at a safe distance updating dispatch with its location. Let the police sort it out. No way I'm drawing my weapon in that instance.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I can tell you one thing NOT to do.

    My granddaughter decides she wants to walk over to the baseball fields to watch her brother's game, only 2 1/2 blocks away. That's fine, but due to the number of people coming / going I keep an eye on her. I'm in a Miata.

    I'm sitting at the parking lot entrance to the fields ..... watching her walk down the street. When she gets there she walks up to me and she decides to jump in to ride over to the exact field.... so she'll know where the car is parked.

    OUT JUMPs a woman in a van..... grabbing my granddaughter and forcing her towards her van. I'm out in an instant..... and approaching her. She's screaming at me to "go away" while my granddaughter is screaming and fighting the woman. When I got up to her, I told the woman if she didn't get her hands off my granddaughter the police were going to be hauling her off for attempted kidnapping and that might be before or after I put her down on the ground (physcially).

    The woman looks at my 'screaming' granddaughter.... and then asks her.... "is he your grandfather ? " . Seems that is the first question she may have wanted to ask, "do you know him ? " .... before grabbing her.

    I was ticked off to say the least and read the woman the riot act. I also told her that was a good way to get shot or go to jail, grabbing someone's kid. What ticked me off more was she did not apologize..... so , I informed her if I saw her again near her... the police would be involved. I didn't call them, but should have.

    The parents here have every right and the law will defend them, that they can forcefully restrain or remove the girl for her own welfare and safety. To talk about charges against them is ludicrous. In that situation , someone "asking" what was going on would not have been out of line, or people calling 911 for them to verify what was going on, but don't go grabbing people or pulling a firearm unless you are absolutely certain you know 100% what's going on.

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoWeBePart1 View Post
    I would have dialed 911 and followed the van at a safe distance updating dispatch with its location. Let the police sort it out. No way I'm drawing my weapon in that instance.
    Thanks for saving me typing time.

  12. #12
    Member Array ZombieShoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSteve View Post
    This is a difficult position for the family. As is, they look like abductors, but what's the alternative? Just let her run loose into who knows what? Then we end up with a real amber alert and parents being acused of neglect, etc.
    I'm not sure what the DA thinks he'll charge them with. Unless they beat her to get her in the car, I'm pretty sure securing your child is not against any laws, though her being 17 could be the issue. She might be legally old enough to have refused to go. It depends on their state's laws.
    I have a hard time believing that any state would give a minor the ability to prevent the family from moving to another location.

    I'd think any competent court would tell the brat to suck it up and deal with it until she turns eighteen.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    Thanks for saving me typing time.
    Ditto - it's too easy to come in on the wrong side of the equation. Call the cops and let them do their job - a concealed carry permit does not make one a part-time cop.
    "Be justified. Blood may be easily wiped from the sword.
    It cannot, however, be put back from where it came." --Quicksabre

  14. #14
    Member Array ZombieShoot's Avatar
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    I think I would have said something verbally.

    It's difficult to say what I would do after. I'd certainly call it in.

  15. #15
    Member Array MSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieShoot View Post
    I have a hard time believing that any state would give a minor the ability to prevent the family from moving to another location.

    I'd think any competent court would tell the brat to suck it up and deal with it until she turns eighteen.
    I didn't say she could prevent the family from moving. What I said was that at her age, she may be legally able to refuse to go herself. 17 is a grey area, and I'm not familiar with the law their. I was posing that as a possible reason that, according to the article, the DA was considering some form of charges. You'd be suprised at the rights some states give to teenagers.
    AlabamaConstitution of 1819: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and the state.
    The world doesn't owe you anything. It was here first.-Mark Twain
    "Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."-John Wayne
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