My response to the "alcohol and guns" debate

This is a discussion on My response to the "alcohol and guns" debate within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; While in my state there is no law against CCW in a bar or restaurant that serves liquor... My permit states it is not valid ...

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Thread: My response to the "alcohol and guns" debate

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    While in my state there is no law against CCW in a bar or restaurant that serves liquor... My permit states it is not valid consuming alcohol/illegal drugs.

    While I agree with the 2A argument that there is no such restriction in the constitution... There is no restriction in the constitution for child molesters or other felons either. Frankly, I don't want the latter to have the right to bear arms.. and am willing to not consume alcohol while in possession of mine.

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  3. #17
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    Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Drinking and anything hazardous is a bad idea. Carrying is not hazardous; using a firearm is. That's when the trouble begins.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  4. #18
    Member Array Griffworks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    The bottom line is that drinking, even a little, removes inhibitions. This can impact decision making in a negative way. I've seen plenty of people do things while drinking that they would never do sober.

    My lifestyle is such that I have to keep my wits about me at all times. I do not drink if I'm carrying, riding my motorcycle, or even driving. These activities are inherently dangerous and require every bit of my faculties to ensure my safety, and the safety of others around me. This is called responsibility, which is in reality, the opposite of hysteria.
    My opinion as well, also after losing family and friends in various alcohol related incidents.
    Arkansas Concealed Carry Instructor #12-751

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  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benthic View Post
    I can certainly respect the decisions of those who have chosen to not have anything to do with alcohol if they have a firearm on them, or near them. However, let's remember that the Second Amendment says: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. It does NOT say ...shall not be infringed, as long as you haven't been drinking, or ...shall not be infringed, unless you haven't been properly trained.

    So while you may believe that mixing alcohol and guns under any circumstances is bad, or that training should be required for a CCW or pistol ownership, that's not what The Constitution says. So if we're going to support the Second Amendment (as I'm sure all here do) then we have to support the whole thing, even though sometimes it makes us a bit uncomfortable. We don't get to pick and choose.

    Brian
    that has got to be the worst use of the constitution for support of an arguement that i have ever heard....thanks for the entertainment...

    i dont have anything agains having a drink or mixing with the drinking crowd while carrying but the last thing i'm gonna do is support drinking and gun use with the second amendment....

  6. #20
    Member Array Benthic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    that has got to be the worst use of the constitution for support of an arguement that i have ever heard....thanks for the entertainment...

    i dont have anything agains having a drink or mixing with the drinking crowd while carrying but the last thing i'm gonna do is support drinking and gun use with the second amendment....
    Just because you don't like my argument, doesn't make it any less valid. We all like to jump up and down about the rights we have that are protected by the Second Amendment. This is one of those cases where we have to remember that it cuts both ways.

    Brian

  7. #21
    Member Array Griffworks's Avatar
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    I definitely agree about that, bladenbullet. My opinion comes from both public safety concerns and personal responsibility.
    Arkansas Concealed Carry Instructor #12-751

    If guns kill people, then:
    Pincels miss spel werds;
    Cars make people drive drunk;
    And spoons made Rosie O'Donnel fat.

  8. #22
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    If I go out and have a glass or two of beer with dinner, I'm not impaired, and I CAN carry in FL. For the most part, my alcohol intake has plummeted since my younger days...before I ever carried a weapon.
    If I'm out and about, my firearm is with me...I don't do bars.
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  9. #23
    Member Array PRSOrator's Avatar
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    i'm guessing some of you guys drive better after a few beers also?...
    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorblade View Post
    I think we have enough statistical data to show that alcohol and driving are not a good mix. It seems that you would be able to conclude that alcohol and the operation of any device that has serious consequences if not operated properly, would be a poor mix.

    There is a difference between operating and maintaining, just because I have my car keys doesn't mean I'm going to get in my vehicle and drive drunk, you can't get arrested for drinking and carrying your keys.

    The same IMO goes for carrying my firearm, I'm carrying it, not operating it. But if my life depended on it I would operate my firearm. Same goes for driving, I'm sorry but even if I have three or four beers in me, if my life is in serious and imminent danger I am getting in that car and driving to the nearest police station. And I would bet that all of you would do the same thing.

    I can't imagine someone saying, "this guy is coming at me with a knife and I need to get away asap....but I did have three beers so I shouldn't drive...."

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. It does NOT say ...shall not be infringed, as long as you haven't been drinking, or ...shall not be infringed, unless you haven't been properly trained.
    You are correct. However, the reason there are laws to supplement the 2nd Amendment is because sometimes so called rational people are not, and so called responsible people are not. If that were not the case, there would be no need for DUI laws or any other law protecting law abiding citizens from the law violating ones.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benthic View Post
    Just because you don't like my argument, doesn't make it any less valid. We all like to jump up and down about the rights we have that are protected by the Second Amendment. This is one of those cases where we have to remember that it cuts both ways.

    Brian
    First of all I can't believe that I'm agreeing with bladenbullet on anything, but I am.

    Second of all I have to ask. How much did you have to drink to make you think that post was wise?

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divebum47 View Post
    If that were not the case, there would be no need for DUI laws or any other law protecting law abiding citizens from the law violating ones.
    There's a fundamental flaw in your reasoning. Don't feel bad, though. Most of our legislators make the same mistake. Laws do not protect anyone, nor are they intended to. Laws exist to provide a framework for punishment of those found guilty of violating them.

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array DaveJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Anything that impaires your situational awareness and skill level should not be consumed or taken and then carry a firearm.
    Perfect summation, IMHO...
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  14. #28
    Member Array MSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Drinking and anything hazardous is a bad idea. Carrying is not hazardous; using a firearm is. That's when the trouble begins.
    This is exactly right.

    Just because we have a right to do something, doesn't remove our personal responsibility when using that right. Regardless of whether it's legal or not, I personally find it irresponsible. If you're one of those peope that can have one with dinner and that's it, maybe it's OK. Beyond that, I'd say no.
    Also, it'd be bad enough to have to explain to a jury someday how, god forbid, when I was shooting the BG, I missed and hit an innocent. It'd be worse trying to explain it right after they get my BAC report. No ammount of "Well it wan't that much" or "it wasn't the alcohol it was..." Right, wrong or indifferent, it'd be attributed to the alcohol. That's just unnecessary liability.

    As far as safety. This is one of the reasons both my wife and I have permits. One of us will be the designated driver anyway; getting to be the designated shooter just goes with it.
    AlabamaConstitution of 1819: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and the state.
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  15. #29
    Senior Member Array DaveJay's Avatar
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    A well regulated militia implies that some rules, regulations, are necessary and good...

    Just as anti 2A folks try to take the first part and twist it to mean something it aint...I feel some pro-2A people take that first part and try to completely disregard it...

    Obviously, the Founding Fathers were in favor of private ownership of firearms...but they also were, IMHO, in favor of some regulation of that ownership...otherwise, we would not see those opening words of "A well regulated militia"

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  16. #30
    Member Array 1980Maico440's Avatar
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    Depends on the situation and the choices one must make on a day to day basis. This reminds me of the issues around what makes a good shoot and how perspectives and factors influence juries, and the participants. I remember that good outcomes sometimes come from good decisions and that good outcomes rarely come from bad decisions. Myself, I ask myself the question every time I leave a secure place (my home or other locations where my defensive posture is different than in "public")... is my head on straight ? .... am I prepared for the situation or activity or responsibilities at hand? So it is a rare day when in public I would personally "have a beer" as that activity comprimises my personal decision to be in suitable condition to operate my weapon, it could easily comprimise my ability to defend myself later in court (ever hear a so called witness make an error? like "yeah he was pounding brews with the rest of them"). Not to say that to make such a momentus decision to use deadly force I would hope my mind was as free from impairment as possible so that I could avoid the potential situation that is still likely to occur, that is to second guess yourself on if you could have handled it any differently? Just thinking aloud.

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